Search found 134 matches

by Maciej
Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:18 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Vanguard and Bismarck
Replies: 84
Views: 14487

Re: Vanguard and Bismarck

As I understand the main reason allies went to single deck armor plate was to defeat bombs, not shells. Both. Reason was simple. With increasing power of shells allies goes to conclusion that detonation of shells had to keep out of ship. Multilayer protection was designed in such way to force shell...
by Maciej
Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:49 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Vanguard and Bismarck
Replies: 84
Views: 14487

Re: Vanguard and Bismarck

BTW Americans used for calulation of deck 0.5*weather_deck + armour_deck + 0.7*backing So relative for Iowa would be 1.5*0.5 + 4.75 + 0.7*0.5 = 0,75 + 4,75 + 0,35 = 5,85 inch = ~147 mm if we add weather deck If not - some trajectories were such that shell could omit weather deck and strike just armo...
by Maciej
Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:35 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Vanguard and Bismarck
Replies: 84
Views: 14487

Re: Vanguard and Bismarck

That is sort of calculation I name „creative counting” Call whatever you want, but you are not arguing with me. You are arguing with scientists and engineers from Krupp and the Kriegsmarine, As should be obvious for everyone English is not my primary language, so possibly I misunderstand something....
by Maciej
Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:05 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Vanguard and Bismarck
Replies: 84
Views: 14487

Re: Vanguard and Bismarck

http://www.admirals.org.uk/records/adm/ ... 13-378.php

3x3.3 m is tiny?
Then there were not any "not tiny" plates on battleship.
And there were more than one better plate.
See link
by Maciej
Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:05 am
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Vanguard and Bismarck
Replies: 84
Views: 14487

Re: Vanguard and Bismarck

Slight? Armour the same thickness had 100 fs advatage on perforation limit, and was ~50 mm thicker,... There were no 5" plates to recover from Tirpitz. The closest to 5" from Tirpitz available at that time would have been from the 120mm scarps. There's the claimed difference: 120mm vs 127mm. No. Di...
by Maciej
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:46 am
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Vanguard and Bismarck
Replies: 84
Views: 14487

Re: Vanguard and Bismarck

on edit
by Maciej
Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:55 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Vanguard and Bismarck
Replies: 84
Views: 14487

Re: Vanguard and Bismarck

No, AFAIK just a prototype that could never been used at the intended pressure..... Your source, please? 4 guns. According to Campbell. No mountings. Add: to be sure about which gun we are talking about. Lion 1939 was to be equipped with Mk II or Mk III guns. Slighty different in construction, but ...
by Maciej
Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:49 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Vanguard and Bismarck
Replies: 84
Views: 14487

Re: Vanguard and Bismarck

I forget.
those ranges at which olates were expected to be penetrated are from official documets. Not calculated by me.
by Maciej
Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:22 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Vanguard and Bismarck
Replies: 84
Views: 14487

Re: Vanguard and Bismarck

MAcej wrote: "But there is another British design similar in size to Bismarck, newer than Bismarck, but still pre war. Lion 1939. See graph and make conclusion" Hi Macej, the graph is clearly based on wrong assumptions: it's simply impossible that the heavier but slower 16" of Lion could do so bett...
by Maciej
Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:06 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Vanguard and Bismarck
Replies: 84
Views: 14487

Re: Vanguard and Bismarck

In case of "unreadable graph" see this one https://www.dropbox.com/s/sc0b0fm3196xvb7/KGV_against_NC_SD.pdf?dl=0 I made only one with such principle to show "unknown area" and other important things. Still not all - turrets/barbettes for example nor forward/back bulkheads not included on graph and ma...
by Maciej
Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:41 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Vanguard and Bismarck
Replies: 84
Views: 14487

Re: Vanguard and Bismarck

Macej wrote: "Slight advatage. ???" Hi Macej, yes I confirm: VERY slight (28 vs 32 km accepting your figures ? How many hits do you expect from 30 km ?) if compared to Bismarck belt+slope IZ that was (as per your note) immune at any distance over 2 km distance (vs.24 km for Vanguard)...... To be fa...
by Maciej
Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:06 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Vanguard and Bismarck
Replies: 84
Views: 14487

Re: Vanguard and Bismarck

Oh and I forget. Lion at dog her bank was disabled. And returned to base.
That is when you control the sea
by Maciej
Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:53 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Vanguard and Bismarck
Replies: 84
Views: 14487

Re: Vanguard and Bismarck

Hi Macej, I see your points, and I agree on the purpose of ship and possible war scenario that affect the choice of a design. No modern battleship sustained a heavy gunnery punishment as Bismarck did, so it's difficult to judge who is best. Question is not how much was needed to sink her, but how m...
by Maciej
Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:51 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Vanguard and Bismarck
Replies: 84
Views: 14487

Re: Vanguard and Bismarck

Armour/not armour is not so simple. American STS used for deck protection sometimes, but was „construction steel” were tested with Tirpitz plates. Were slight better than German Britiss Ducol steel were slight inferior. Say was 90% that of Tirpitz. So instead of 32 You have 29 mm. Dismiss? British ...
by Maciej
Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:07 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Vanguard and Bismarck
Replies: 84
Views: 14487

Re: Vanguard and Bismarck

Modernized Kirishima was not "modern". Sorry Lutzow - possibly. But was there any torpedo hit? And it is not best exaple, as Derrfilinger had that slope, if I'm not mistaken. But all those are not so revelant. I'm repeating in various places (possibly not here yet) that there is not "overal" superio...