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by alecsandros
Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:51 am
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Prince Eugane v AGS
Replies: 52
Views: 1046

Re: Prince Eugane v AGS

..... was the armour on AGS that heavy as to enable her to absorb multiple hits from 8"? Rasenack thought not in his comments on the two eight inch hits from Exeter. 80mm declined at 20deg is not enough to resist 8" impact. AGS wasn't designed to resist 8inch gunfire, but to destroy 8&quo...
by alecsandros
Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:24 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Prince Eugane v AGS
Replies: 52
Views: 1046

Re: Prince Eugane v AGS

Thanks for that, One other point, in a 'stern chase' AGS whilst having the initial capability to outrange the cruisers, surely the cruisers would not be steering a straight course but instead would be weaving about to avoid being hit making the AGS rangefinding more difficult, especially as she wou...
by alecsandros
Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:17 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Prince Eugane v AGS
Replies: 52
Views: 1046

Re: Prince Eugane v AGS

not sure that advantage would be enough. using plate as reference 8" guns got hit every 67 shells , while 11"C28 got a hit every 45 shells. Every minute the British could fire 16 x 4 =64 /67 or 95.5% hit, while the AGS could fire only 6 x 3 = 18/45 or 40% chance of hit. Now weight of fire...
by alecsandros
Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:40 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Prince Eugane v AGS
Replies: 52
Views: 1046

Re: Prince Eugane v AGS

How about 2 8x8" cruisers like Norfolk and Suffolk working together, would they be enough to subdue one of them? In many situations, yes, but I wouldn't risk saying in the majority of happenings. The weather would play the key role, and AGS would have the upper hand in good weather and visibil...
by alecsandros
Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:00 am
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Vanguard and Bismarck
Replies: 81
Views: 4098

Re: Vanguard and Bismarck

Maciej, Tirpitz's belt was 33mm thinner then Vanguard's, but behind it was the armored scarp , 110 to 120mm thick (which Vanguard didn't have), and the 45mm Whotan torp bulkhead (which was comparable with Vanguard's internal armored bulkheads in way of the main magazines). So you have that 110 to 12...
by alecsandros
Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:18 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: The Court Martial for the Denmark Strait
Replies: 871
Views: 18166

Re: The Court Martial for the Denmark Strait

Dear all, I would like to present 2 aspects concerning Prince of Wales's disengagement at 6:01: 1) The material aspect of Prince of Wales exiting the battle , covered in smoke, and moving away, out to approx 40km N-N-E of Bismarck. 2) The judgment that was behind the disengagement (Prince of Wales w...
by alecsandros
Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:57 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: KGV and PoW GAR during Op. Rheinubung
Replies: 61
Views: 2795

Re: KGV and PoW GAR during Op. Rheinubung

For perspective ,
We should add that most WW2 battleship gun battles were short (10-15 minutes), thus making KGV's record during a 30-min interval , and in an Arctic storm , all the more remarkable.
by alecsandros
Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:59 am
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Prince Eugane v AGS
Replies: 52
Views: 1046

Re: Prince Eugane v AGS

This is especially important since German Intel were reading merchant codes through 1943. The convoy pattern had been deduced by mid 1941 with signals intercepts through early 1944 , about 1/2 of all N. Atlantic convoys were detected . Only 1/4 of these convoys were attacked due to lack of assets [...
by alecsandros
Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:04 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Prince Eugane v AGS
Replies: 52
Views: 1046

Re: Prince Eugane v AGS

The undoing of the lone warship raider concept was the rise of naval air power during the war. This occurred post 1940. However, in the 1930's naval air power (as well as submarines) remained unproven. True, but that required a large number of long-range aircraft or a significant number of aircraft...
by alecsandros
Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:37 am
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Prince Eugane v AGS
Replies: 52
Views: 1046

Re: Prince Eugane v AGS

Gentlemen, I can see why the RN would have been worried, especially if more had been built. The only ships that would be capable of catching and outgunning them would have been the KGV's, Hood, Repulse, Renown or failing that two 8x8" cruisers working together, although I suppose it might have...
by alecsandros
Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:24 am
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Prince Eugane v AGS
Replies: 52
Views: 1046

Re: Prince Eugane v AGS

The mistake is to think that Hitler and Raeder knew (or should know) what would be the (naval) war. Raeder made long-term plans. If they had guessed what the (naval) war would be, they would not have started it. Lack of experience aside, it was painfully clear that the Kriegsmarine could only wage ...
by alecsandros
Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:01 am
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Prince Eugane v AGS
Replies: 52
Views: 1046

Re: Prince Eugane v AGS

1. The treaties system 2. Shipbuilding in progress. 3. Vibration problems of diesel engines that would aggravate at higher speeds if the engines were not changed. 4. Cost of rebuilding Only when Hitler denounced the treaties system, did it make sense to retake the concept. But in 1939 it was late. ...
by alecsandros
Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:41 am
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Prince Eugane v AGS
Replies: 52
Views: 1046

Re: Prince Eugane v AGS

Rasenack, on discovering this after WW2, said that if the encounter had happened he felt there would have been a real risk of the AGS raiding cruise coming to an end before it started. He considered that the eight inch guns posed a real threat. Surely they posed a real threat, especialy at such a l...
by alecsandros
Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:57 am
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Prince Eugane v AGS
Replies: 52
Views: 1046

Re: Prince Eugane v AGS

Ouch! Not much chance for PE then. Was the amour on AGS that much heavier than PE? In my opinion no, but the key was what would the shell do when encountering the armor. When the 283mm APC shells from AGS come crushing against the 105+30mm (thickest portions) armor belt of PE, that armor can't do m...
by alecsandros
Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:46 am
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Prince Eugane v AGS
Replies: 52
Views: 1046

Re: Prince Eugane v AGS

... FWIK, there was no essential damage caused by 8" gunfire to AGS during the battle. Instead, AGS crippled Exeter in about 14 minutes of firing, scoring 5 direct hits and 1 crippling near miss (in that time interval), leaving Exeter with only 2 x 203mm workable guns (on local control), bridge...

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