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by Bill Jurens
Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:34 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Bismarck at DS after the second turn
Replies: 372
Views: 31300

Re: Bismarck at DS after the second turn

We are doing well, but -- and this is, I think inherent to this sort of forum -- sometimes much patience is required in order to allow readers to actually examine the evidence and respond in a coherent manner. One can't try to do too many things at once -- even doing only one is challenging enough. ...
by Bill Jurens
Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:10 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Bismarck at DS after the second turn
Replies: 372
Views: 31300

Re: Bismarck at DS after the second turn

Regarding the rather recent, though welcome, flurry of postings... My own sense of the situation would be to proceed fairly slowly, i.e. to -- as Mr. Bonomi has suggested as well -- to try to concentrate on just one specific issue at a time. I think it best to begin by trying to obtain some sort of ...
by Bill Jurens
Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:50 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Bismarck at DS after the second turn
Replies: 372
Views: 31300

Re: Bismarck at DS after the second turn

My thanks to Mr. Bonomi for the additional bearing and distance data. I will plot these as soon as possible and see if they, at least in my mind, confirm the plot suggested by the 15000 meter 143 degree data. I suspect they will at the very least help to clarify the situation. Addressing Mr. Virtuan...
by Bill Jurens
Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:55 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Bismarck at DS after the second turn
Replies: 372
Views: 31300

Re: Bismarck at DS after the second turn

I think we may be getting ahead of ourselves here. My posting of "Track Chart One" should not be interpreted as some sort of acknowledgement that I think it to represent a correct solution or a suitable jumping-off point. It was merely posted to illustrate what Mr. Bonomi's proposed benchmark distan...
by Bill Jurens
Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:25 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Bismarck at DS after the second turn
Replies: 372
Views: 31300

Re: Bismarck at DS after the second turn

My apologies for the second posting. This supplements my immediately previous post, which alluded to a track chart plot which -- for whatever reasons -- appears not to have actually gone through. It is attached here for reference...

Bill Jurens
by Bill Jurens
Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:10 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Bismarck at DS after the second turn
Replies: 372
Views: 31300

Re: Bismarck at DS after the second turn

I thought it potentially useful to append a copy of a track chart which is, at least to my intention, in accordance with Mr. Bonomi's suggested benchmark of using the 0:600 distance and bearing from Prinz Eugen to P.O.W. as a starting point. As both British and German tracks are to the same scale, a...
by Bill Jurens
Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:17 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Bismarck at DS after the second turn
Replies: 372
Views: 31300

Re: Bismarck at DS after the second turn

I am glad to see we are back on track again, and discussion is resuming. I was becoming concerned that interest had been lost. I will make a few relatively brief comments for what they are worth. Mr. Bonomi wrote: "I hope that now everybody can check the official documents, I mean the Jasper report ...
by Bill Jurens
Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:14 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Bismarck at DS after the second turn
Replies: 372
Views: 31300

Re: Bismarck at DS after the second turn

I am glad to see that we seem to be making progress here. One correspondent suggested that an overlay of the most relevant track charts might be a useful tool in analysis. This is true, and represents in fact, how I have tended to approach the problem, at least initially, in the past. Unfortunately,...
by Bill Jurens
Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:39 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Bismarck at DS after the second turn
Replies: 372
Views: 31300

Re: Bismarck at DS after the second turn

My thanks to the correspondents who noted the use of emojis and boldface, etc. My concern is not that they be used at all, but that once the process starts, it can quickly get out of hand, where presentation ends up taking precedence over information . Basically statements of fact or conjecture shou...
by Bill Jurens
Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:02 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Bismarck at DS after the second turn
Replies: 372
Views: 31300

Re: Bismarck at DS after the second turn

I am very happy to see that we as a group are indeed apparently making progress now, though perhaps more slowly than wished or anticipated. I would caution Mr. Virtuani (and to some extent others, acting in conjunction and/or retaliation) that the re-emergence of terms suggesting that other particip...
by Bill Jurens
Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:19 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Bismarck at DS after the second turn
Replies: 372
Views: 31300

Re: Bismarck at DS after the second turn

This would seem to be a good start. Does any other correspondent wish to either add a document or for whatever reasons -- which should be specified -- have one of these documents removed?

Bill Jurens
by Bill Jurens
Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:58 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Bismarck at DS after the second turn
Replies: 372
Views: 31300

Re: Bismarck at DS after the second turn

Do we have a set of mutually agreed upon and (at least reasonably similar) simultaneous ranges and bearings that we can begin to work from? I, for one, find a fair amount of the correspondence here confusing due to references to various sketches and written documents which I can't often immediately ...
by Bill Jurens
Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:48 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Bismarck at DS after the second turn
Replies: 372
Views: 31300

Re: Bismarck at DS after the second turn

I don't think there is yet a full appreciation of the potential differences between gun range and navigational range. The corrections referred to so far seem to revolve around adjustments for target movements during time of flight. While important enough in and of themselves, these are not the error...
by Bill Jurens
Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:41 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Bismarck at DS after the second turn
Replies: 372
Views: 31300

Re: Bismarck at DS after the second turn

I am not sure we actually have consensus yet. I, for one, would be interested in my questions regarding gun range vs navigational range.

Other correspondents??

Bill Jurens
by Bill Jurens
Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:54 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Bismarck at DS after the second turn
Replies: 372
Views: 31300

Re: Bismarck at DS after the second turn

This seems to be a useful and productive discussion so far, When figures and methodologies differ, it IS often difficult to determine precisely what set of numbers, or interpretation is most reliable. Patient and respectful discussion -- as we are seeing here -- usually does enable some sort of cons...