Naval History Forums

Yes, USN BBs were getting radar installed during the course of 1942, or it was just becoming operational.

If your plot is a straight slope the inputs for penetration are incorrect. It should be a reducing radius curve.

I'm sorry, but the USN was just barely bringing radar into operation at that time. Also what surface combats were USN BB's involved with between late 42 and early 44?

Plot a graph of deck penetration vs angle of fall-range, and you will see what I mean.

Regardless of the functionality of Bismarck's radars, Schneider used the established optical range finding procedures. He ordered a 400 meter bracket procedure after the first salvo fell just short according the Baron. The procedure was to fire short and long salvoes over a 400 meters spread, with ...

You were very careful to say "combat experience", but this statement is misleading. German cruisers and battleships didn't get nearly as much sea time as the corresponding allied ships. Sea time is much better training with all types of equipment than sitting at the pier or in drydock. Sa...

...... Dave was opining that 14" shell would be almost as effective, and I was wondering where that came from. Well I'm just reinforcing the stated observation that the deck penetration goes up expotentially as the angle of fall increases. This is because the striking angle during oblique impa...

How many ship hours at sea did the KM have? Now compare it to the RN and the USN. Then look at how many radar ship hours they had (ie how many of those sea hours were they using their radars). The RN and USN almost assuredly have orders of magnitude more. How many actions did the KM have where they...

Regardless of the functionality of Bismarck's radars, Schneider used the established optical range finding procedures. He ordered a 400 meter bracket procedure after the first salvo fell just short according the Baron. The procedure was to fire short and long salvoes over a 400 meters spread, with t...

That's probably true of the IJN situation, and certainly the RM situation that ended in 1943, but not necessarily the KM. The information and data are not readily obtainable (yet), certainly not on the internet, and so the popular narative does not address these facts.

I think this has to do with the design of AP shells, which typically have difficulty with high target angles but then become disproportionately effective as the target angle begins to fall.... This is why somewhat lighter and smaller battleships caliber shells can attain surprizing deck penetration...

..... There was obviously a learning curve with radar and some of the early battles didn't go as well as they could have but the US and UK learned from those and by the end of the war in a night action or a BB vs BB action they had a decided advantage over their axis opponents and would have had so...

The BB to BB range of the 284M was officially 29,000 yards. Historically the Duke of York's 284M first detected Scharnhorst at 35,000 yards, but the amplitude of the pip was too small to hold the target and determine the bearing until the range closed to about 26,000 yards. If we take into account t...

Bgile wrote:.........OK so now we are limiting this to the British ships having mk8 or better radar? I didn't realize that we were assuming a huge radar advantage to the British. In any case, optical bearing is preferred.......

Why do they need Mk8 or better radar? Type 284M was blind fire capable.

When it comes to British naval radar I can't reccomend Derek Howse's work Radar at Sea enough. Howse has proven invaluable when it came to placing in the proper context and understanding of many of these technical documents. Howse was somebody actually involved in the effort. Another person involved...