Naval History Forums

Hi All! Here's my thoughts. 1. Vic, Andrew and even Rob Winkelareth should be commended for the hard work they put in, regardless of its merit. They all advanced our understanding of something that is probably impossible to pin down exactly at this late date. 2. All three men deserve credit for havi...

To me astrology is a mixed bag. The daily horoscopes are bunk. If you compare several of them for the same sign on a particular day you see that they are inconsistent. Sometimes you see the opposite among several and overall they are inconsistent. If you look at just one, often all 12 signs say the ...

I think the problem is not off topic but rather that we are all guilty of using excessive hindsight. I started this when I said (and IIRC provided a source) that future proliferation was among the factors that Truman and his advisors weighed in making the decision to bomb Hiroshima instead of first ...

Thanks to everybody for their input on this thread. I'd like to re-focus on my original premise. Avoiding hindsight as much as possible: a. Whether boarding the Bismarck would be worthwhile for intelligence purposes; b. Whether that reward outweighed the risks; and c. Whether this presented any prac...

Hi Bgile! 1. The fact that the myth that Bismarck (or any ship) was unsinkable persists to this day doesn't mean it is correct. You could make a video and I'm fairly sure you would say much the same thing. I agree generally with this but with some refinement, as follows: Although nothing is "un...

1. My above post (No 16 in sequence, first on the second page) is flawed. The OP posits that this would be the first engagement and combat experience for both sides. I made the mistake of relying on the historic record showing that after a year and a half of experience, the US came to grips with Jap...

This would have to happen in mid 1943 for the Iowa and New Jersey to be comissioned and worked up. By then the US had figured out how to handle the Japanese torpedo and night tactics. I don't think the little ships torpedoes would give Japan an advantage and radar and better fire control might turn ...

Hi Bgile and RF! They may feel that whatever happens to Iran, it is Allah's will that Israel be destroyed and they will use the bomb if they can. That's just as likely as an American President saying whatever happens to the US, it's manifest destiny to spread democracy and free markets all over the ...

Thank you every body for the good responses to the OP.

Her's a link to the Baron's book section about the sinking that gives some perspective from on board Bismark at the time (for those who haven't read it yet)

http://www.world-war.co.uk/index.php3

Hi RF! So far none of the fruitcakes have obtained nuclear weapons, so this consideration has not been put to the real test. I disagree. First, a fruitcake could not slog his way to the top without being exposed. Doing so requires a rational, ruthless and calculating man, even in the smallest countr...

I think there is some discussion of this possibility in the British records but I can't remember where. I'll look for it but maybe someone else can find it sooner and post a reference. Maybe Churchill raised the subject either before or after in his Memoirs. Knowing The Great Man's history and tende...

Hi RF! Thanks for your reply. I always try to approach hypos using foresight only. Based on the factors in my OP, I agree that the British could not know looking forward whether she would sink on her own. Thus unless there is the chance to board and secure valuable intelligence from an inspection, I...

This might seem a little offbeat. I've been wondering about the considerations, consequences or reasons involved in leaving the Bismarck as a floating, useless hulk versus finishing the job by sinking her. Did it matter one way or another? This assumes that: a) The British battleships inflict the ex...

Hi Lwd! I haven't posted in a while because I wanted to give the topic some rest and reflection. I was concerned that my above March 2 post about political philosophy was overkill. It appears that you didn't think so given your thoughful response on March 3, which appears to be the result of your co...

Hi lwd! A couple of things in response to your last post. 1. In response to my statement that it was justifiable to disregard how a 1-2 week delay for a demo bomb would affect the interests of our difficult Chinese ally, you said that "if I a am arguing morality that's a hard position to justif...