Hello Alberto,
At last we agree:
sorry, I prefer not to look at an abject provocative thread that NOTHING has to do with "Bismarck General Discussion" section in this forum,
Although intrasigent denial of points made to the Conspiracy theorists has caused some frustration.
However,
On post-mortems:
It is not clear to me who is carrying out this post-mortem. Up to now I had only thought, as I argue below, that it referred to a real 1941 evaluation by the only people qualified to do it, that is Pound and Phillips. However, maybe Roskill refers to an impartial imaginary PM ie the author's opinion and the reader's own evaluation when his book is read. For me "The" means a single evaluation carried out in 1941 by Pound and Phillips which for the simple timing issue outlined cannot have occurred.
Have
you read the things you post? "The post-mortem on the Bismarck operation also showed Pound and Phillips in an unfavourable light." Tovey's recollection is that the threat was made as soon as he docked. How can Pound and Phillips carry out a post-mortem, they have not even seen his report? You allege he later changed details to protect certain officers but he has already "defeated" the proposal before they have even read his interim report. As we know the various second hand retellings of this story were always vague about
when the fabled phone conversation took place, but Tovey is clear - on arrival. Why is Roskill muddled? He has had Tovey's story since about 1950, spent loads of "quality time " with him and he writes here in 1977! There is no time for a post-mortem such as he describes, and no need for the distortion of facts and downright lies you and Antonio have alleged, because
the threat has already been defeated on the 31st May.
Who is Roskill's source? As you have shown us quite clearly, Tovey definitely says the CMDS threat in the letters Roskill has had in his possession since the 1950s
happened on arrival at Scapa Flow. That is on the 31st May. However in Churchill and the Admirals Roskill says there is time for a Post-Mortem. Why?
Because he is actually using Kennedy's Pursuit version as his source, which says P226:
Having read all the reports on the operation and studied the track charts, Pound informed Tovey that he wanted Wake-Walker and Jack Leach brought to trial...........
Kennedy, even having been given and studied Tovey's letters does not respect Tovey's timing, but
substitutes his own, delaying by several weeks the "threat", which Roskill effectively repeats.
Interesting Roskill says Tovey dilated at length.....in several letters. You have described him only mentioning CMDS in two out of four. Several usually means more than two. IMHO what you have shown us is not "at length at all" but a very basic stripped down description, but if that is all there is, and I am sure it is, that is all we have. There is no description of precisely what any Court Martial charges might be for, which is the point Cag has made.
and was able to see beyond the exact wording of the charges
There is no exact wording described.
BTW WRT Graham Rhys-Jones' book may regurgitate the CMDS story without Kennedy's caveat, but in the chapter discussing the D/F controversy he says
But we should not regard Tovey's evidence as conclusive; he was not a notably reliable witness in old age
Another denier to replace Cag, whose patience has apparently expired? Hopefully, since he has bowed out before and returned, he will return again with his valuable information and insight.
All the best
wadinga