Karl Heidenreich wrote:As for me in two weeks I am going to visit USS Intrepid, USS New Jersey and the Smithonian. Bye.
Very best regards,
You posted that you were not impressed last time you visited the NJ. Have you decided to give that flawed treaty-limited ship another chance to impress you?
lwd wrote:alecsandros wrote: Remember the US had a corrosion problem with their fuses early in the war. I think recovering a shell or two after the Torch landings was how they discovered it.
alecsandros wrote:Remember that 1 day before Kirishima got plastered, Jim Bean was taken out by exactly the same kind of shell fired from the same type of gun. And all shells functioned exactly as they should have had.
only two shells are known to have exploded,
... Of the five shells that hit Jean Bart,two, perhaps three, failed to explode. The two that exploded hit in the "nothing" sections of an "all or nothing" designed battleship. These two wrecked large parts of the ship, but parts that contained no vital equipment.
The two hits which definitely did not explode hit the hard armor of the primary turrets. In both cases, the fuse mechanism broke off. ...
was removed from service in 1941 and 1942, being replaced by the Mark 21 Base Detonating Fuze. The 0.033-second-delay Mark 21 BDF--...--was much safer and more reliable when new, but it had its own problems with corrosion of its intricate internal parts from fumes from the projectile's Explosive "D" filler that limited it to a reliable shelf-life of six months until a Bakelite plastic outer coating was developed in mid-1943 to seal the fumes out, solving the shelf-life problem from then on in new or remanufactured AP
The fuze worked fine during acceptance tests and when installed in the shells for up to 6 months, but the designers forgot something: The Explosive "D" (ammonium picrate) filler used (only) in US Navy naval ammunition from about 1911 through after WWII (only some AA shells used any other filler) tended to emit some fumes that could corrode metal, though the fuze internal mechanism was not touching the filler and nobody thought that small amount of fumes and the slight corrosion they might cause inside the fuze meant anything; it never had caused a problem before. However, those tight alignment tolerances REQUIRED NO CORROSION WHATSOEVER BE PRESENT, so after 6 months the corrosion began to interfere with fuze function more and more often. The final straw was the failure of several Mark 21 BDF used in the 16" Mark 8 AP projectiles when firing on the JEAN BART at Casablanca during Operation Torch -- after inspection of the duds (about half of the shells) some of the fuzes were found to have failed due to this corrosion problem and a major effort was made to identify what was the cause (which was found immediately) and to fix it (which took until the middle of 1943, when dipping the entire fuze in "Bakelite" liquid plastic and allowing it to harden into an air-tight seal was found to work).
Did they? Assumeing that was a snide reference to Jean Bart we have According to http://polyticks.com/bbma/shells.htm
alecsandros wrote: ... At least 2 other sources mention Massachussets disabling 2 French destroyers and sinking another ship in the harbor with her 16" shells.
Thus, the question remains : how do you explain that the same gun using the same shell performed just as it should have on Nov 13th ?
The final straw was the failure of several Mark 21 BDF used in the 16" Mark 8 AP projectiles when firing on the JEAN BART at Casablanca during Operation Torch -- after inspection of the duds (about half of the shells) some of the fuzes were found to have failed due to this corrosion problem
ede144 wrote:lwd wrote:ede144 wrote:Lwd
I like your post, so overwhelming full of facts.
Which one?Maybee a ber or two would have helped to calm down.
Your posts read as you have been embarrassed
lwd wrote:The final straw was the failure of several Mark 21 BDF used in the 16" Mark 8 AP projectiles when firing on the JEAN BART at Casablanca during Operation Torch -- after inspection of the duds (about half of the shells) some of the fuzes were found to have failed due to this corrosion problem
I'll take his word until someone produces some solid evidence to the contrary.
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