Is the Bismark the Most Famous/Infamous Battleship Ever?

[Kyler]

I know many members of this sight would probably would say yes because of their collective interest in the story of the Bismark. Though is it truly the most famous/infamous battleship in the world. There are a number of other great battleships that could also be remembered at being as equally significant such as the HMS Dreadnought, HMS Warspite, HMS Hood, USS Arizona, USS Missouri, or the IJN Yamato.

It is not shocking that I believe the Bismark is the most famous due to a large number of factors. She was a symbol of Nazi Germany rise power after the 1st World War, she at the time was one of the most advance ships afloat, her sinking of the HMS Hood (then easily the most famous ship in the world), Churchill's decree to the RN to "Sink the Bismark." the ensuing battle leading the Bismark's destruction, and her eventual discovery by the famous Robert Ballard.

Is there any other points in favor or against the Bismark being given that title?

[RNfanDan]

Definitely not. For one, I've never heard of a famous battleship named Bismark. Altmark, yes--but that wasn't a battleship; Noah's Ark, hmmm....not a warship.

Aside from the well-intentioned nudge to your misspelling of the ship's name, I think the issue really boils down to generational and geographic influences.

Bismarck is among the most famed ships in many parts of the world, and still holds--along with others of similar tenacity--a ring of familiarity with the world, at large. Arizona and Hood seem to be likely candidates for that honor as well, but in Japan, I suspect a list of "Top Ten" famous warships would read differently.

None, I believe, can compete with the liner Titanic except perhaps Noah's Ark, simply on continuing public awareness and prominence in print and other media. The generational attrition of those Americans closest to Bismarck's days seems to have diminished the ship's prominence, and while Yamato has enjoyed a resurgence in popularity on a regional basis over the past several years, the association of Bismarck with Nazi Germany has not seemed to resonate so strongly here in the USA--I'm referring to the public at large, not us warship enthusiasts and historians--as it did, when I was much younger.

The Arizona seems to lead public awareness in the USA, Bismarck and Yamato may be in the mix somewhere down the line a bit, and Hood, Graf Spee, Scharnhorst--well, don't bet too much on them being very familiar in America nowdays, especially among the younger crowd. Mention Enterprise here, for example, and you may get 25-to-1 or more odds of the fictional Star Trek vessel over either one of the famous aircraft carriers!

This is all speculative of course, but in my anecdotal and "lifetime" experience, this is the way I see it.

[paulcadogan]

I agree with Dan overall, but I do think that ship for ship Bismarck leads all others in fame AND infamy depending on your "side".

To me, her story, her short life and the impact of those 10 days in 1941 on the psyche of all those who care to learn about it (not necesarily on the war itself) is unparalleled - no matter how great the stories or impacts of all the other warships may have been.

And whether you like it or not, the clincher that puts Bismarck way over the top was her lightning destruction of Britain's most famous and glamorous warship. Take that out of the picture and the whole episode would have been just another exciting sea chase. Bismarck might still have earned fame, but she would not be LEGENDARY!

I would be willing to bet that for most of us who browse these forums - Bismarck was the gateway to our learning about the German Navy - period! Tirpitz is famous because she was Bismarck's sister. Prinz Eugen is famous because she sailed with Bismarck. Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, Hipper, Scheer, even Graf Spee - we all learned about them AFTER Bismarck got our attention.

So... Bismarck rules!!

Paul

[Bgile]

I think my first knowledge of German warships was the Graf Spee, which I built a model of when I was about 10. I had already built a number of models of US ships and I knew nothing to speak of about WWII itself. IIRC I liked the Art on the box and then I read about the battle when I took it home and opened it.

[Kyler]

RNfanDan, thanks for calling me out, I am a lousy proofreader, that mistake is pretty embarrassing on this forum

I am in completely agree that either the Titanic or Noah's Ark are probably the most famous ships in history. That’s why I chose simply the most famous battleship. I don't think Bismarck's story even how unusual and great can hold a match to most of the public's idea of Leo and Kate on a boat.

I agree with the whole of the posts so far, a lot of a particular ship being famous depends on the area of the world. The USS Arizona is famous in the US because of the tragedy behind it destruction and the start of the 2nd World War. The USS Missouri is famous because it where the 2nd World War ended and the Big Mo starred in a Steven Seagal movie.

The HMS Hood is famous because she was considered the most powerful ship afloat until Bismarck sunk her. Since her completion, the RN sent her on many PR missions around the globe probably making the most recognizable & popular warship in the world. Though her sinking tarnished that image of a great ship, and she is now permanently link to the Bismarck's story.

IJN Yamato, is popular in Japan for good reason and a big part of her international popularity is because her and her sister were the largest battleships ever constructed.

USS Enterprise maybe a more popular ship but she isn't a battleship and she had a lot of help from a guy named Gene Roddenberry.

[Karl Heidenreich]

I think that if we judge the issue goes as follows:

A ship to be Famous/Infamous must go to the bottom. A ship that does not go to the bottom could be "a bit famous".

Basically, Famous/Infamous ships are:

1. Titanic. No sweat. Everybody knows "I´m the king of the world!" stupid sentence.
2. Bismarck. I think is the warship with more model kits, documentaries, movies, internet site, etc. etc.
3. Arizona. Maybe for the Americans as could be the Maine
4. Hood. Without any doubt.
5. Yamato. Each year more people has come to know her as the greatest
6. Santísima Trinidad. For some at least
7. PoW and Repulse? Maybe
8. Lusitania?
9. Royal Oak?
10. Wilhelm Gustloff?

[RNfanDan]

"...thanks for calling me out, I am a lousy proofreader, that mistake is pretty embarrassing on this forum

Forgive me, I wasn't trying to embarrass you, merely tug at your collar a bit!

A ship to be Famous/Infamous must go to the bottom. A ship that does not go to the bottom could be "a bit famous".

Unlike some people with whom I've shared an interest in warships and naval history, I no longer assign a great deal of weight to the "infamous" aspect of Bismarck, preferring instead to focus on the ship as the fine vessel it truly was. I hold this view as consistently as possible with all warships, famous or otherwise, as my interests lie in their technology, design, appearance, and visual appeal.

I would be willing to bet that for most of us who browse these forums - Bismarck was the gateway to our learning about the German Navy - period!

There is no doubt, at one time during my early years of life, that Bismarck's fame/infamy played a leading role in furthering my interest in naval history and warships. Odd as it may seem, even back in those days Bismarck did not lead me to delve into the subject of German warships, but instead led directly to my long-time obsession with HMS Hood! Since then, my interest in the British Royal Navy of that era and earlier, has not ceased.

[paulcadogan]

There is no doubt, at one time during my early years of life, that Bismarck's fame/infamy played a leading role in furthering my interest in naval history and warships. Odd as it may seem, even back in those days Bismarck did not lead me to delve into the subject of German warships, but instead led directly to my long-time obsession with HMS Hood! Since then, my interest in the British Royal Navy of that era and earlier, has not ceased.

Dan - that's my story exactly. Learning about Bismarck brought me to Hood and the rest is history! I recall learning about Graf Spee at about the same time along with Ajax, Achilles & Exeter. I was about 5 years old.

I never heard of Scharnhorst or Prinz Eugen until I was a bit older and started building models. I got an Airfix catalogue and saw them. Then my Dad bought me Ernle Bradford's "The Mighty Hood"......end of story...I was a goner...

But here's one for fame....what other WW1 or 2 warship had a hit song on the charts? Johnny Horton's 'Sink The Bismarck" debuted on the Billboard Hot 100 on March 14, 1960 and climbed as high as #3 in a 13-week chart run.

Paul

[lwd]

...A ship to be Famous/Infamous must go to the bottom. A ship that does not go to the bottom could be "a bit famous"....

Why? Victory, Iowa, and Constitution are fairly famous and Iowa even counts under the BB descriptor on this thread. Victory might also with a bit of a stretch. As for infamy I'd reserve that for ships like the slave ships or ones involved in a war crime of some sort. Bismarck hardly rates being called infamous. She was a proud ship and justifyably so.

[Dave Saxton]

There are several factors that lead to the Bismarck classe's fame:
* The suspense and drama of the Bismarck chase and the battles. A gifted fiction writer could not have done better than the actual historical events.
*Bismarck and Tirpitz looked the part. Most people find the Bismarck one of the best if not the best looking warship ever built. Even those tasked with their destruction usually comment on what handsome ships it and its sister ship were.
*Bismarck was a strong and well balanced combination of the three factors of firepower, protection, and speed.
*Bismarck achieved the above combination unconventionally for the WWII era, by not being a development or a derivative of the G3 concept.
*Bismarck utilized for the time frame what was cutting edge technology. For some examples, it utilized advanced metalurgy that became the bench marks of metalurgy post war, it was mostly welded, it was equipped a highly advanced and sophisticated centralized firecontrol system with RPC quite similar to the newest American systems, it was equipped with superlative optical equipment, it was radar equipped, it was Sonar (both passive and active) equipped, it utilized talk between ships communications facilities far more advanced than any other systems available at the time, it utilized advanced electronic ship control technology that became the basis of ship control technology used post war in both the east and the west.....

[tnemelckram]

Good answers by everyone.

I think the question is best answered a different way.

The Bismarck Chase is the Greatest Se Story Ever. More twists and turns that the movie
The Usual Suspects where the screenwriter was trying real hard. Bismarck uber Keyser Soze!

[Karl Heidenreich]

One of my favorite movies, The Usual Suspects, and one of the best characters ever, Keyser Soze, even if we don´t see him and kept with the doubt: is really Kevin Spacey our guy?

Good analogy!

[RF]

My straight answer to Kyler's question is Yes.

I would add another point to Kyler's list - the battleship with the most ironic name......

[RF]

As a naval author I for one would be interested to see what Jose makes of this thread.......

[Legend]

Are we forgetting something guys? The first thing every naval historian starts with in a documentary of heavy warships is:

Dreadnought.

That has to be on there somewhere, even if she wasn't sunk. I agree with Titanic and Bismarck though for being on top.