70th Anniversary, sinking of the Bismarck

Discussions about the history of the ship, technical details, etc.
wallsmacker Art
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70th Anniversary, sinking of the Bismarck

Postby wallsmacker Art » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:54 pm

JOIN US TO COMMEMORATE THE ANNIVERSARY In May this year, it will be the 70th anniversary of the sinking of the Bismarck after it's encounter with the Mighty Hood. To commemorate this poignant and significant historical event, I am embarking on an oil painting of the Bismarck in the Denmark Strait. I am planning to feature this on my website http://www.wall-smacker-art.com, where visitors to the site can view the development of the painting, on a daily basis, from blank canvas to completed work. It also intended that we shall incorporate a daily 'potted history' of the events leading up to the battle, and an interactive forum whereby visitors can participate by adding their comments, views and knowledge to the site. It would be wonderful if as many people as possible can join this venture, in memory of the many thousands of sailors, both British and German, who lost their lives as a result of the events that occurred over a few days seventy years ago. Please check out the website http://www.wall-smacker-art.com and click on 'Bismarck - birth of a painting' to view the details of the plan; you can also register your e-mail address if you wish, so that we can remind you of the start date of the countdown. We look forward to you joining us in this remembrance, and to see how the painting develops.

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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: 70th Anniversary, sinking of the Bismarck

Postby Antonio Bonomi » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:23 pm

Hello,

there are many paints and prints reproductions already out there, but many, really almost all of them, are so wrong that one cannot beleive.

This is not a surprise of course, as there are also so many wrong books written by pseudo experts as well, even captioning wrong ships and not only wrong details on them so poor their real level of knowledge is on Bismarck, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst and so on, ...... :wink:

So my question to you is : from were are you going to take your references to make such a paint reproducing those events ?

Bye Antonio :D
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

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RF
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Re: 70th Anniversary, sinking of the Bismarck

Postby RF » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:55 pm

A very interesting question.....
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

wallsmacker Art
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Re: 70th Anniversary, sinking of the Bismarck

Postby wallsmacker Art » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:05 pm

Hi, My reference books include 'The Battleships' (Johnston and McAuley), 'The Discovery of the Bismarck' (Ballard) 'Hood and Bismarck' (Mearns and White), 'Killing the Bismarck' (Ballantyne). I have tried to research the topic as thoroughly as possible, but I must stress that my two paintings - one of the Bismarck and one of HMS Hood, are not intended to be 'technical drawings' of the battleships. I have been very moved by the history of these two mighty ships, and my aim is to create two paintings to honour the memory of the many thousands who lost their lives. I am aiming not just to provide a replica image of the vessels, but to capture the magnificence and awesome power of these ships and, in the one of the Bismarck in the Denmark Strait, the drama of the battle.
If you have any pointers to good, accurate sources, I should be pleased to hear from you. I do hope that as many people as possible will join in the spirit of the website venture, which I hope will bring to life the history of this momentous period of history, and serve as a memoriam to the many lives lost.

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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: 70th Anniversary, sinking of the Bismarck

Postby Antonio Bonomi » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:59 am

Ciao all,

ok, here my contribution to your initiative, please refer to those 2 photos of Hood and Bismarck taken a day before the Denmark strait battle, so very close to the events you want to show.

I have used your post on hmshood.com forum, were I can upload images more easily.

http://www.hmshood.org.uk/forum/phpBB3/ ... b1ae#p3817

I have placed recent 3D's under the photos so you can easily compare in colours what you are looking at on real original b/w photos.

Notice the Bismarck was WITHOUT the Baltic stripes ( black and white stripes camo ) and WITHOUT the 3rd anchor on the bow ( removed days before in Gotenhafen ), the original photo leaves no doubts; those are usually the 2 major mistakes everybody does when depicting her during may 24th, and 27th, 1941 actions.
Similarly notice that Hood was painted dark grey and not wearing her usual light grey pre-war colour scheme.

With this in mind you can also use Thomas Schmid fantastic 3D website for more details on both warships.

http://www.3dhistory.de/

http://3dhistory.de/wordpress/?page_id=4

http://3dhistory.de/wordpress/?page_id=54

and I think that you should have now enough precise infos to do a good job.

Bye Antonio :D
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

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Herr Nilsson
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Re: 70th Anniversary, sinking of the Bismarck

Postby Herr Nilsson » Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:50 am

There was no jack staff and ensign staff.
Regards

Marc

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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: 70th Anniversary, sinking of the Bismarck

Postby Antonio Bonomi » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:01 pm

Ciao all,

well said Herr-Nilsson (Marc) :wink: , ... and if you want to be really perfect than put on Bismarck mast the flag for Admiral Lutjens on-board ..... because also the flag's and their precise positions do make the difference on a well done job, ..... :wink:

Bye Antonio :D
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

wallsmacker Art
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Re: 70th Anniversary, sinking of the Bismarck

Postby wallsmacker Art » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:52 pm

Hello Antionio, Herr Nilsson and everyone,

Thank you so much for your trouble in sending me the information and the pictures. I will definitely refer to them in the course of my painting. I had realised about the absent stripes, but you make some good points which will, I'm sure, be useful to me.

My painting of the Bismarck is just after the sinking of HMS Hood and is set in the midst of the dramatic battle scene. So as to have a complete contrast in atmosphere and style, however, I have decided to portray HMS Hood in earlier, more tranquil days - docked in Vancouver harbour, so I need to try and get the correct details for the ship at that time. Perhaps when I have finished these two paintings, I will embark on one of the Hood in the Denmark Strait too, but let's see how these turn out first!

I hope you will be watching us on the website in May.

Once again, thank you for your help.

David

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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: 70th Anniversary, sinking of the Bismarck

Postby Antonio Bonomi » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:33 am

Ciao all,

@ David,

it was my/our pleasure I am sure to have helped you.

@ Marc,

can you double confirm the Flottenchef flag with swords rather than the standard admiral flag.

http://www.hmshood.org.uk/forum/phpBB3/ ... 1d92#p3820

Bye Antonio :D
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

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Herr Nilsson
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Re: 70th Anniversary, sinking of the Bismarck

Postby Herr Nilsson » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:31 pm

Antonio Bonomi wrote:@ Marc,

can you double confirm the Flottenchef flag with swords rather than the standard admiral flag.

http://www.hmshood.org.uk/forum/phpBB3/ ... 1d92#p3820


No, I can't confirm this. AFAIK there was no Flottenchef flag at all. The flag you refer to was the flag of a Commander-in-Chief of the German navy, who is not grand admiral. But I have to check this at home, where I have a copy of the "Flaggenbuch" of the German navy from 1939.
Regards

Marc

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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: 70th Anniversary, sinking of the Bismarck

Postby Antonio Bonomi » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:06 pm

Ciao all,

@ Herr-Nilsson,

YES Marc, I follow you, but a flag was there on top of the mainmast as Bismarck photos do shows; so we only need to determine which one they used for Adm Lutjens.

Being him the Flottenchef I thought it should be the one with swords, as the one with the " Marshall Baton's " belongs to Admiral Raeder only.

http://flagspot.net/flags/de~933rk.html

My doubts was only if they were using the standard Admiral with the black cross but without the swords.

Bye Antonio :D
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

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Herr Nilsson
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Re: 70th Anniversary, sinking of the Bismarck

Postby Herr Nilsson » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:30 pm

Hello Antonio,

yes,I know there was a flag. IMHO it was a admiral's flag. I see no other option.
Regards

Marc

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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: 70th Anniversary, sinking of the Bismarck

Postby Antonio Bonomi » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:17 pm

Ciao all,

@ Herr Nilsson,

so you are of the opinion that it was the standard Admiral Flag with only the Iron cross in black on the white field, with NO swords.

That was my doubt as well in fact on my Bismarck 1/350 model by Tamiya I have placed that one and NOT the one with the swords back on 2005.

I will check tonight which flag was on Tirpitz during Op. Rosselsprung on July 1942 with Adm Schniewind on board, as it was the Flottenchef as well ( so just like Adm Lutjens ) consequently the flag must have been the same used on Bismarck with Lutjens on board as Flottenchef a year before on May 1941.

But than I am curious for whom that flag with the swords was to be used ?

Admiral Raeder as GrossAdmiral had the one with the Eagle and the 2 Marshall Baton's, .... :think:

Bye Antonio :D
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

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Herr Nilsson
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Re: 70th Anniversary, sinking of the Bismarck

Postby Herr Nilsson » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:38 pm

The one with the swords was used by Raeder when he was Commander-in-Chief but not Grossadmiral.
Regards

Marc

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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: 70th Anniversary, sinking of the Bismarck

Postby Antonio Bonomi » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:57 pm

Ciao all,

@ Herr-Nilsson,

many thanks Marc, I see now the use of the sword one.

The most clear photo of Bismarck with that flag in fact seems to have only the iron cross and not the swords.

Same goes for Tirpitz on Op. Rosselsprung and Sportpalast.

Bye Antonio :D
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )


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