Hello all
I have a question that has been bugging me for quite some time. I have heard that all the small boats on Bismarcks main deck were removed at the start of Operation Rhein. Is this true? And if so were the cradles that held them and the small boat cranes forward of P2 & S2 removed as well? Or did they stay on?
Main deck small boats
Moderator: Bill Jurens
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Herr Nilsson
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- Location: Germany
Re: Main deck small boats
AFAIK all small boats were removed except the both cutters between turret I and III(starboard) and II and IV (port). But to be honest, I can't see the two cutters on any of my pictures of Rheinübung. 
The cradles were bolted to the upper deck and removable. There are pictures where we can possibly see some of them laying next to the funnel or main hangar door.
http://www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarck/g ... ion110.jpg
http://www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarck/g ... ion111.jpg
The cranes were removable, too. The cradles for the cranes were on the wall between I and III and II and IV and on the barbette of I and II. The cradles on the barbettes could be swing into a rest position if not used.
Wall:
http://www.bild.bundesarchiv.de/dev06/b ... layout.jpg
http://www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarck/g ... tion14.jpg
Barbette:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File% ... smarck.jpg
The cradles were bolted to the upper deck and removable. There are pictures where we can possibly see some of them laying next to the funnel or main hangar door.
http://www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarck/g ... ion110.jpg
http://www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarck/g ... ion111.jpg
The cranes were removable, too. The cradles for the cranes were on the wall between I and III and II and IV and on the barbette of I and II. The cradles on the barbettes could be swing into a rest position if not used.
Wall:
http://www.bild.bundesarchiv.de/dev06/b ... layout.jpg
http://www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarck/g ... tion14.jpg
Barbette:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File% ... smarck.jpg
Regards
Marc
"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
Marc
"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
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Ultimate Shield
- Junior Member
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- Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:13 am
Re: Main deck small boats
yeah that's the problem I'm having as well. all the photos I've seen are either too blurry to make out weather or not they are there or too far off. 
The reason I ask is because I'm working on a Revell 1/350 Bismarck (DS). I'm using the Lion Roar PE & the Mk1 wood deck which has holes cut for these boat cradles, so I'm trying to find out weather or not I need to patch the holes in or not.
The reason I ask is because I'm working on a Revell 1/350 Bismarck (DS). I'm using the Lion Roar PE & the Mk1 wood deck which has holes cut for these boat cradles, so I'm trying to find out weather or not I need to patch the holes in or not.
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Herr Nilsson
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- Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:19 am
- Location: Germany
Re: Main deck small boats
There's a picture of a damaged cutter and one davit lying on the sea floor.
Regards
Marc
"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
Marc
"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
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Ultimate Shield
- Junior Member
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Re: Main deck small boats
Very interesting... But if I recall Bismarck had 2 cutters above the port side hanger next to the funnel so it may be one of those.
Is there a place where I can access this photo your speaking of?
Is there a place where I can access this photo your speaking of?
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Herr Nilsson
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- Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:19 am
- Location: Germany
Re: Main deck small boats
AFAIK the cutters on the port side hangars were replaced by motor pinnaces a few weeks before Rheinübung. The picture of the cutter on the sea floor shows a davit lying next to the boat. I saw the picture last Wednesday when I met Josef Kaiser.
Regards
Marc
"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
Marc
"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
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Ultimate Shield
- Junior Member
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- Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:13 am
Re: Main deck small boats
Ah ok. I had no idea they were replaced. 
Most drawings and models I've seen show the cutters on the port hanger. So the motor boats they were replaced with, were they the larger type that we see on the outside of each small hanger or like the smaller one we see closest to the funnel on the starboard hanger?
BTW thanks for helping answer my questions
Most drawings and models I've seen show the cutters on the port hanger. So the motor boats they were replaced with, were they the larger type that we see on the outside of each small hanger or like the smaller one we see closest to the funnel on the starboard hanger? BTW thanks for helping answer my questions
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Herr Nilsson
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- Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:19 am
- Location: Germany
Re: Main deck small boats
AFAIK it was a 9.2 m pinnace without cabin. Unfortunately I just found some information about the pinnace with cabin, but I think it will possibly help you.
http://www.ship-model-today.de/sd126.htm
There is one picture from Hitler's visit with the hull of the pinnace visible. The following picture also shows Bismarck with the pinnace.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/ ... U/aaa2.jpg
The picture was taken shortly after Hitler's visit. They already started to paint over the camouflage at the foretop. Note that the camouflage only works, if the rangefinders is turned to starbord. In most drawings the rangefinders are turned forward (or backward for the third rangefinder) and the camouflage is drawn in a continuous line. That's wrong.
http://www.ship-model-today.de/sd126.htm
There is one picture from Hitler's visit with the hull of the pinnace visible. The following picture also shows Bismarck with the pinnace.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/ ... U/aaa2.jpg
The picture was taken shortly after Hitler's visit. They already started to paint over the camouflage at the foretop. Note that the camouflage only works, if the rangefinders is turned to starbord. In most drawings the rangefinders are turned forward (or backward for the third rangefinder) and the camouflage is drawn in a continuous line. That's wrong.
Regards
Marc
"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
Marc
"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
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Ultimate Shield
- Junior Member
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:13 am
Re: Main deck small boats
Awesome photos and info 
Here is whats confusing me about the cutters being on the main deck. In all these photos that I have of the beginning of OP R I can't see the cutters anywhere. And I don't recall seeing any of the davits or crane equipment on either side of the wreck site, Although those may have easily been blown off or swept away in the sinking
I found this 3d rendering i think is by Thomas Schmid
Is is possible that they only removed the left set of cutters on the port hanger, leaving the right set in the spot closest to the funel, and moved the motor boat up into its place like the photo bellow?
Dana
Here is whats confusing me about the cutters being on the main deck. In all these photos that I have of the beginning of OP R I can't see the cutters anywhere. And I don't recall seeing any of the davits or crane equipment on either side of the wreck site, Although those may have easily been blown off or swept away in the sinking
I found this 3d rendering i think is by Thomas Schmid
Is is possible that they only removed the left set of cutters on the port hanger, leaving the right set in the spot closest to the funel, and moved the motor boat up into its place like the photo bellow?
- ww14.jpg (122.59 KiB) Viewed 4513 times
Dana