Bismarck's fate.

Discussions about the history of the ship, technical details, etc.

Moderator: Bill Jurens

User avatar
RF
Senior Member
Posts: 7760
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:15 pm
Location: Wolverhampton, ENGLAND

Re: Bismarck's fate.

Post by RF »

alecsandros wrote: IMHO, it's all about sea control.
Agreed.
Bismarck was not hopelessly lost on May 26th
Possibly - we can never be 100% sure on that.
If Bismarck were a British ship exercising sea control , she would have good chances of survival.
Agreed.
In the way that she was historically - a lonely ship in a lonely ocean - she did not have chances of survival, and even without the faithfull torpeod hit on the evening of 26th, repeated follow up strikes would have been exercised on May 27th. Distance between Ark Royal and Bismarck was 120km, and Bismarck would have been substantialy slowed down with or without a rudder hit (presuming 3 torp hits + 2 underwater or waterline hits)
I don't think it is a certainty that Ark Royal's planes could have slowed down Bismarck - without the rudder hit Bismarck would be getting closer to being in range of Luftwaffe air cover, plus U-boat support. Vian's destroyers couldn't torpedo their target even with it almost stationery and under the cover of darkness. By the morning of 27 May Bismarck would be in a position of being almost home while Ark Royal becomes more exposed to being found and attacked.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.
User avatar
RF
Senior Member
Posts: 7760
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:15 pm
Location: Wolverhampton, ENGLAND

Re: Bismarck's fate.

Post by RF »

alecsandros wrote: In the way that she was historically - a lonely ship in a lonely ocean - she did not have chances of survival,
As an aside I would mention that the hilfskreuzer Atlantis - which was far more alone and remote from its homeland than Bismarck ever was - was able to replace a keel plate at Kerguelen in the Indian Ocean entirely on the ingenuity of its crew - a job expected to be performed only in a dockyard, a job which had it not been done would have rendered Atlantis unable to continue its mission and having to scuttle. The one major factor for Rogge of course was that there was no interference from British forces, however it does give some indication that things can be got done remote from home.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.
alecsandros
Senior Member
Posts: 4349
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:33 pm
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: Bismarck's fate.

Post by alecsandros »

RF wrote:
I don't think it is a certainty that Ark Royal's planes could have slowed down Bismarck - without the rudder hit Bismarck would be getting closer to being in range of Luftwaffe air cover, plus U-boat support. Vian's destroyers couldn't torpedo their target even with it almost stationery and under the cover of darkness. By the morning of 27 May Bismarck would be in a position of being almost home while Ark Royal becomes more exposed to being found and attacked.
... On May 26th 21:00, Bismarck was at 1300km (700 nm) distant from Brest.
Her cruising speed was 20kts (36km/h), thus requiring ~ 35hours to get into Brest. Maximum speed during the final Swordfish attack, if post-action reports of interogated crew members are to be believed, was around 24kts prior to the 2nd torpedo hit. As the 3rd aerial torpedo hit occured very rapidly after the 2nd, we do not know by how much did it reduced Bismarck's maximum speed at the time, but some reduction must have happened.

Effective Luftwaffe range was around 4-500km for anti-ship operations, and given the storm through which Bismarck and her pursuers were moving, it is debatable weather land-based bombers operating 500km from home would be able to discover and attack the British fleet [and the demonstration came on May 28th, when 100+ bombers launched failed to discover the bulk of British ships , concentrating instead on 2 fuel-depleted destroyers]

Nonetheless, to get witing 500km of Brest, Bismarck needed to navigate 800 more kilometers, or 22 hours from May 26th 21:00... a lot of time while under enemy surveillance and in range of an enemy carrier.
===
A Raven

Re: Bismarck's fate.

Post by A Raven »

On the 28th, the Fleet was attacked by aircraft in two groups. The first attacked the KGV group, and the second group of aircraft attacked destroyers Mashona and Tartar, sinking the former. Also, three aircraft made to attack the Ark Royal but were driven off by AA fire. Bombs were dropped, but there were no hits made on the carrier.
User avatar
José M. Rico
Administrator
Posts: 1008
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:23 am
Location: Madrid, Spain
Contact:

Re: Bismarck's fate.

Post by José M. Rico »

alecsandros wrote:... On May 26th 21:00, Bismarck was at 1300km (700 nm) distant from Brest.
The wreck of the Bismarck is 470 nm from Brest.
The Bismarck had been steaming Northeast during the night of 26-27th, therefore, at 2100 hours on the 26th, the distance to Brest was even less.
Post Reply