Prinz Eugen towing Bismarck?

Karl Heidenreich · Post by **Karl Heidenreich** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:33 pm

A couple of years ago I saw a photograph in which was indicated that Prinz Eugen was towing Bismarck (I believe it was in the Baron´s book). It was during some exercises at the Baltic. I really do believe that the photo was a refueling process exercise.
But well, the thing is: IF Lutjens never detachted the Prinz Eugen, AND supossing it went scratchless from the attack from the Swordfish torpedo planes: could Prinz Eugen, in the middle of the Atlantic, somehow towed Bismarck to France?
And if so, could that manouvre saved the Bismarck from it´s fate? Because, even that measure taken, the KgV and Rodney could catch them because their superior speed. Did the British had enough fuel for that final pursuit?
There is other question in all this. Lutjens, or the KM General Staff or Command, did everything at their disposal to save the ship? The damage was so collosal that no repair o measure could be taken in order to escape? No "kamikaze" style Luftwaffe mission to spook the British Battleships? I believe the Japanese, having been there, would have considered that.
And to finish: the 7 knot speed Bismarck was making just before her last battle, was it her maximum speed due to the damage or Lindemann ordered it to win some time?

Matthias · Post by **Matthias** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:14 pm

Karl Heidenreich wrote:IF Lutjens never detachted the Prinz Eugen, AND supossing it went scratchless from the attack from the Swordfish torpedo planes: could Prinz Eugen, in the middle of the Atlantic, somehow towed Bismarck to France?

I don't think so, even because Prinz Eugen had to be detached because of its lack of fuel, due to its not so economical machinery...

You should also consider that sea conditions would have heavily influenced this operation, if technically possible.And more, british torpedo planes would have attack both the german ships, and they would have had a very reduce manovrability.

I don't think Kriegsmarine would have accepted the loss of her capital ship without doing everything they could to save it...

Karl Heidenreich · Post by **Karl Heidenreich** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:35 pm

Yep. I figure that.

Laurenz · Post by **Laurenz** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:32 pm

If Bismarck is not able to manouvre by her own, she dont need any oil, so it would have been possible to fuel PE from Bismarck.
As i mentioned already the target for Swordfish would be always the Bismarck even PE is present.
But the chance of AA hits would have been doubled.
As i know, Karl, 7 knots was max speed not caused by the engines more responsable was the whincle of the damaged rudder.
They checked the possibility via some explosive to detonate the rudder, but it seemed that this could not be done under a controled way.
Another german warshipship as PE could have done with torpedos from a short distance maybe, another reason to stay in esquadron tactics.
Kind regards,
L.

shuttlefan101 · Post by **shuttlefan101** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:03 pm

ok if that final battle happen and PE was there i had her pinned again County class cruiser Norfork and Dorsetshire? but what do you guys think did, could she have win against two ship her size?
Nikki

Laurenz · Post by **Laurenz** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:46 am

Very simple thing is, that PE could always escape. PE had the highest speed of all involved ships.
But Brinkmann could have decided by his own when the right moment for this would incoming.
And as i mentioned PE could might help Bismarck to loose the damaged rudder.
And perhaps a crossfire from 2 ships might have avoided the torpedohit.
Kind regards,
L.

shuttlefan101 · Post by **shuttlefan101** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:07 pm

no the rudder was to badly damaged. Ironically, if Prinz Eugen had still been present, she might have been able to assist Bismarck limp within range of air support either by providing a tow or acting as a great sea anchor, enabling limited steering. this is for one of my other websites about Bismarck.
NIKKI

Laurenz · Post by **Laurenz** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:35 pm

PE might had shot the damaged rudder away via torpedos...
:-)
L.

shuttlefan101 · Post by **shuttlefan101** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:57 pm

maybe, i don't thing she had torpedos?? But i love them both i just wished they i survived the war together.
Nikki

tommy303 · Post by **tommy303** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:24 pm

Prinz Eugen carried 4 triple torpedo tube mountings and about ten reloads. However using a torpedo to fire into the already damaged stern of the Bismarck to blow the rudders away would have been most unwise as it could hardly have been a precision shot. With its much larger warhead, compared to the 18-inch torpedo which jammed the rudders, a 21-inch torpedo could have caused catastrophic damage to areas of the ship forward of the rudders--ie props, shaft tunnels, etc. A smaller, measured charge or charges, just enough to do the work and not run the risk of serious collateral damage, was what was called for, however sea conditions prevented attempts to place such charges.

shuttlefan101 · Post by **shuttlefan101** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:59 pm

but could she have been able to tow bismarck into port or was that two much of a gamble?
nikki

tommy303 · Post by **tommy303** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:19 pm

Possibly, depending on weather state, but one has to take into consideration the whole issue of why Luetjens detached Prinz Eugen in the first place. While Bismarck had a good chance of making it to one of the Biscay ports with the amount of burnable fuel on board and without refueling, Prinz Eugen did not. When Luetjens decided to detach Prinz Eugen, the Norfolk, Suffolk, and Prince of Wales were still shadowing the force and Luetjens knew that it would not be possible to refuel at sea so long as the enemy was still in contact, and since the Prinz Eugen did not have enough fuel to reach France without refueling, Luetjens had little choice but to send her on her way to the nearest safe rendezvous with a tanker.

Consequently, Bismarck turned and engaged Prince of Wales briefly while the Prinz Eugen made good her escape. The cruiser then set course to the South to rendezvous with a tanker. When she met the tanker, she had only about 200tons of fuel remaining.

shuttlefan101 · Post by **shuttlefan101** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:58 pm

PE was older then bismarck right? if my understanding she was 50 mile back from the last fight, why not get even closer to bismarck and try to pertect her big brother?
nikki

tommy303 · Post by **tommy303** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:16 pm

Prinz Eugen was the same age as Bismarck both having been commissioned in the same year. Prinz Eugen was a heavy cruiser as opposed to a battleship like Bismarck. I am not sure exactly what her position was when Bismarck fought her last battle, but the ships were many hundreds of miles apart at that time. Bismarck was running for France while Prinz Eugen was still trying to carry on with the mission of intercepting merchant shipping.

shuttlefan101 · Post by **shuttlefan101** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:04 am

i thing what made me feel bad for evenyone involved, was just know by hook or my crook, she was going to be sank, and that just broke my heart. i think from what i read PE and Bismarck were acutally 23 days apart!
Nikki

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Prinz Eugen towing Bismarck?

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Towing Bismarck?

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