New Expedition to Hood to recover ship's bell

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wadinga
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New Expedition to Hood to recover ship's bell

Post by wadinga »

All,
New expedition planned to recover Hood's bell!!!! :o

Microsoft founder to recover bell from HMS Hood
Paul G Allen, the co-founded of Microsoft, will offer use of his yacht to recover the bell of the battle cruiser HMS Hood, which was sunk in 1941, it was announced today.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/worl ... -Hood.html

My personal view is: "Damn the torpedoes-Full Speed Ahead!". As someone who earned his living on board ship I have never believed all this excessive war grave sensibility. When ships are alive, at work, have a crew and have a purpose, then they have a personality, when they are dead and wrecked, they are just lumps of steel on the seabed. HMS Thetis was salvaged and sent back to sea. The wreck of HMS Vanguard was raised from Scapa Flow and scrapped. Hood's memory lives on here and in all our consciousness and her bell on display in Portsmouth would be a wonderful thing.

Good Luck David Mearns (need someone to make the teas!)

All the best
wadinga
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RF
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Re: New Expedition to Hood to recover ship's bell.

Post by RF »

I disagree entirely with the sentiments of the above post and deplore the fact that the British authorities are allowing this to happen. It is a thorough disgrace.
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Re: New Expedition to Hood to recover ship's bell.

Post by paulcadogan »

I realize opinions will vary and some will be very passionate, which must be understood and respected.

But there is precedent for recovering ship's bells: e.g. Royal Oak's bell was recovered in the 1970's and is displayed as part of the ship's memorial at St Magnus Cathedral in nearby Kirkwall in the Orkneys.

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Prince of Wales' bell was also recovered and is on display at the Merseyside Museum in Liverpool:
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One thought I have is in the case of a sunken ship, in which you cannot recover those who were lost for burial, the ship's bell - the heart and soul of the ship, could be a representation, and its proper and respectful memorialization will preserve the memory of those lost for generations to come.

I fully understand and appreciate the sentiments of those who would want it left alone though. But for me, I hope that one day I will have the means to make the trip to see the bell and pay my respects to those who gave their lives on HMS Hood.
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Re: New Expedition to Hood to recover ship's bell.

Post by tommy303 »

Here in Arizona we have one of the two ship's bells from the USS Arizona; the other is at the visitor centre at Pearl Harbor.
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Re: New Expedition to Hood to recover ship's bell.

Post by Pandora »

I think this is good news. recovering the ship's bell for a memorial display is not plundering the wreck.
I hope they do the same with Bismarck's bell.
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RF
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Re: New Expedition to Hood to recover ship's bell.

Post by RF »

paulcadogan wrote: One thought I have is in the case of a sunken ship, in which you cannot recover those who were lost for burial, the ship's bell - the heart and soul of the ship, could be a representation, and its proper and respectful memorialization will preserve the memory of those lost for generations to come.
The intent may be respect..... the word that comes to my mind is macabre. War graves should be left completely as they are. The removal of artefacts, no matter how well intentioned, should be a crime attracting the most severe of penalties, as it is desecration.
In Britain the removal of body parts from graves is an offence of such gravity that there have been only two prosecutions in recent decades, both involving fox hunt sabotuers raiding the burial places of deceased huntsmen.

War memorials do not need to have artefacts stolen from final resting places to serve as memorials. It is morally wrong. Those that do it should know it is wrong. That is why it should attract the most severe of penalties.
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paul.mercer
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Hood's bell

Post by paul.mercer »

Gentlemen,
I read in the paper today that the co founder of Microsoft supported by a company called Blue Water Recoveries have been given permission by the British Ministry of Defence to recover one of the bells from the wreck of HMS Hood ( at no cost to them) and if successful will be displayed in an RN museum in Portsmouth ( I believe she was a Portsmouth ship).
Apparently the bell is lying on the seabed some way from the wreck, I presume she had quite a few bells as the expedition that discovered the wreck showed on still in place.
Personally I think it is a good idea and it is a pity it was not recovered before Ted Briggs passed away, however, some of you might think differently, so what are your opinions - is it a one off or could it be a start of something more sinister like disturbing a war grave?
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paulcadogan
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Re: New Expedition to Hood to recover ship's bell

Post by paulcadogan »

Here is the official word from the HMS Hood Association - the only group I believe has the moral authority to say yes or no to this venture. Apparently the idea was developed long ago and was supported by Ted Briggs (God rest his soul) himself before he passed away.

If all goes well with the expedition, Hood's bell is coming home....home to the nation and people she and her crew fought and died to defend...to be preserved forever so future generations will know that she and her crew were REAL.. they, as we, WILL REMEMBER THEM!

Have a look:

http://www.hmshood.com/association/arch ... ll2012.htm

Paul
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RF
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Re: New Expedition to Hood to recover ship's bell

Post by RF »

paulcadogan wrote:If all goes well with the expedition, Hood's bell is coming home....home to the nation and people she and her crew fought and died to defend...to be preserved forever so future generations will know that she and her crew were REAL.. they, as we, WILL REMEMBER THEM!
''Home'' is where the bell already is, on the sea floor..... there is no need to retrieve it. That is not respect.

If the HMS Hood Association believes that it is right to retrieve this artefact from its final resting place then in my opinion they are wrong. If I were one of Hoods' crew on that fareful day on 24 May 1941 then I would say they do not represent me and their actions would be a gross impertinence. Unfortunately they are not going to be confronted by that view by any of the deceased.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.
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Re: New Expedition to Hood to recover ship's bell

Post by Canadian Cowboy »

I feel bringing up one of several of the bells belonging to H.M.S. Hood. Someone mentioned the 2 bells which belong to the U.S.S. Arizona. Why not the H.M.S. Repulse, as Well as the K.M.S. Bismarck & K.M.S. Prinz Eugen. It's a way of memorializing and remembering the men who fought and died in defence of their countries and their love for them. Both friend and fo alike. If human remains where being removed. Then I would say that would be wrong. I believe the souls of those lost while lost in action while aboard the ship they loved, served aboard, and the comrades who died along side of them reside there.
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Re: New Expedition to Hood to recover ship's bell

Post by tommy303 »

I'm not sure that Bismarck's bell has ever been located on the ocean floor. It had, I believe, been sited atop the main aircraft hanger near the mainmast, but to the best of my knowlege is no longer there and may have been shot away during the battle. Prinz Eugen's bell, is in possession of the US Naval Museum in Washington DC.

Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood and Earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned these defended;
And saved the sum of things for pay.
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RF
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Re: New Expedition to Hood to recover ship's bell

Post by RF »

Canadian Cowboy wrote: .... It's a way of memorializing and remembering the men who fought and died in defence of their countries and their love for them..
But why should this be so? You can have a memorial without taking artefacts from the grave. Why is there an obsession with taking objects from their final resting place?
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.
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Re: New Expedition to Hood to recover ship's bell

Post by tommy303 »

It is I think, perhaps a uniquely human trait, that one needs the tangible--something that one can see or touch that makes the reminder more real, brings it solidly into the here and now. While I do not myself advocate such things necessarily, I can understand how recovering the ships bell might in a way be like bringing the ship and her ethereal crew back home from the sea.

Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood and Earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned these defended;
And saved the sum of things for pay.
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paulcadogan
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Re: New Expedition to Hood to recover ship's bell

Post by paulcadogan »

Here's another thought....

When a soldier is killed in action, his or her dog tags are removed and returned to the family as a keepsake. So why not a ship's bell - removed and respectfully placed in a memorial?
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Re: New Expedition to Hood to recover ship's bell

Post by RNfanDan »

While I respect RF's views, I must point out that the ship's bell becoming the centrepiece of a memorial, serves the public MUCH better than it can possibly do as-is, lying completely out of sight of the vast majority of those who ought to have it within easier reach.

Shipwrecks are the most hallowed of gravesites, and the remains of the dead should not be disturbed. However, when an artefact or small pile of bits, lying well away from the resting place of entombed sailors (the ship's bell does not lie atop any buried souls) is respectfully and carefully treated, restored to public view, and therefore "speaking" for those very souls, which one serves their memories, better---a far away, forgotten piece of material out of reach (and therefore out of mind), or that same piece in an environment where it can spark the imagination, respect, and reverence those men so richly deserve?

Generations unborn ought to have something more than photographs and written matter to convey the magnitude of their sacrifice and the meaning of their service to the nation. What better and more fitting icon can one display, than the bell? Even landsmen have contact at ordinary burial sites, where they can at least be close to those resting, plant flowers, touch monuments, and the like. That is good. Through that bell, landsmen can get much closer to the memory of Hood and her dead, than being almost entirely out of reach of their grave on the sea floor.

I am of British descent, and Hood has been fixed in my mind for nearly fifty years---there are many others who have been seeded with her story and legend, around the world. If anything could inspire me to overcome the many obstacles I face in traveling to the UK, it would be Hood's bell. I'd love to have that chance! :pray:
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