Bismarck and the whistle blower.

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Gudbrandur
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Bismarck and the whistle blower.

Post by Gudbrandur » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:33 am

Two things had to come to gether before the Krigsmarine sent out a ship on a mission. The first thing was the air recconnance mission and the second one the order to sail, once the first one was fullfilled. It was the OKW that gave the order. The first order for Bismarck to sail was on marz the 19. 1941. This you can find in the Barons book. In the early morning hours of 19th of marz the air KG26 recconance mission was sent out of Stavanger Norway bound for Iceland. For some strange reasions the British inntelligence service got hold of this order and sent a warning to Iceland of an incoming invations force. As the air reconnancance flight played out the mission was abandoned with the aircraft making a forced landing on a lava field in Iceland and four of the crew on the run.
Prior to the second attempt in mai 1941 again a air recconance aircraft of the KG26 was sent out and this time to look for a save passage to the east of Iceland, this aircraft flew into a mountain on the east coast, killing all the crew. The second aircraft was sent out from Stavanger a J88 to investigate the east and north passage and with that aircraft back in Stavager the Bismarck mission to Iceland started, but at this time the English where waiting, they knew of the incomming German Krigsmarine fleet, so it was no surprice finding the German Krigsmarine fleet. On the other hand the Germans at the same time thought they where undetected. This is why the Bismarck had used up 55% of its bunker when the war parties met.

I seriously think that there was a whistle blower at OKW spying on the Germans and I am trying to speculate on who it was,: was it Rader or was in Canaris. I suspect Rader as Canaris was a crewmember in the marz 19 forced landing episode. To have the OKW leak came as a surprice to me. At the OKW meatings would have been,: a. Hitler, b. Rader, c. Canaris, d. Dönitz , as this was a U-Boat Krigsmarine mission to interfear with English air recconanance missions against the German U-Boats, out of Iceland.
Gudbrandur Jónsson

Thorsten Wahl
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Re: Bismarck and the whistle blower.

Post by Thorsten Wahl » Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:54 pm

Gudbrandur wrote: This is why the Bismarck had used up 55% of its bunker when the war parties met.
where did you get this figure
Bismarcks bunker was 7700 m³
consumption according Kriegmarine experts estimate (MDV 601 Heft 3 Die Atlantikunternehmung der Kampfgruppe Bismarck-Prinz Eugen)
18.05.1941, 00:00 - 24.05.1941, 00:00 ---------2.610m³ (34%)

remaining fuel oil ~5.100 m³(66%)
Meine Herren, es kann ein siebenjähriger, es kann ein dreißigjähriger Krieg werden – und wehe dem, der zuerst die Lunte in das Pulverfaß schleudert!

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Re: Bismarck and the whistle blower.

Post by Gudbrandur » Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:40 pm

Hi, Thorsten

If you go to, "Bismarcks endurance, fuel bunker and fuel burn", further down the page, you will see the fuel mats done. The journey log for Prince Eugen indicates that the two ships left Norway in a big hurry at speed of 32 kn. That is no long range, economy speed for the two ships. Prince Eugen bunkered up at Norway but the Bismarck did not. The whole mission was carefully preplaned with max speed in mind. Prince Eugen ended up north of the Azors out of fuel and had to wait som time for a fuelship and then only got fuel for closest harbour. Bismarck could not load up full bunker if She was to outrun the English at her max speed. The Bismarck mission was a plain Blitz Krig mission as out of the book. Fast in and fast out. Now what is expected to have happend on full throttle with all the superchargers on is probably 45 tonn an hour, fuel burn off. When they kick in, I don´t know, but that is close to 32 kn for the Prince Eugen and the Bismarck. I hope someone knows that better than I.

Just for the fun of it, in the English/ Icelandic cod wars, the Icelandic Coast Guard played this trick on the English, to have them speed up a little for the superchargers to kick in and the English warship was out of the game in two days.
Gudbrandur Jónsson

Steve Crandell
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Re: Bismarck and the whistle blower.

Post by Steve Crandell » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:51 pm

That was quite an accomplishment, since Bismarck was not capable of 32 kts.

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Re: Bismarck and the whistle blower.

Post by RNfanDan » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:57 am

Steve Crandell wrote:That was quite an accomplishment, since Bismarck was not capable of 32 kts.
In a good tailwind, and with the faster Prinz Eugen providing a towing assist to Bismarck with a specially-constructed and reinforced fuel hose (so they could share oil losses evenly), the pair could just make 32 knots. After the DS battle, Lindemann sent forward a party to sever the tow/fueling rig, but the poor lads got confused and cut the anchor cabling instead...

EVERYONE knows this. :wink:
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Re: Bismarck and the whistle blower.

Post by Herr Nilsson » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:26 am

Gudbrandur wrote:The journey log for Prince Eugen indicates that the two ships left Norway in a big hurry at speed of 32 kn.
Source?
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Marc

"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)

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Re: Bismarck and the whistle blower.

Post by Gudbrandur » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:38 am

The source sent to me is from the Prince Eugen journey log, the journey from Norway to the Azors. 32 kn crossing the Atlantic and 27 kn in the fog on the Greenland east cost and until the engagement. Hope the jounrey log is not false.
Gudbrandur Jónsson

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Re: Bismarck and the whistle blower.

Post by Herr Nilsson » Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:29 am

http://www.kbismarck.com/archives/pg-ktb.zip

Download it and read it, please. Which page?
Regards

Marc

"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)

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Re: Bismarck and the whistle blower.

Post by Gudbrandur » Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:08 pm

There is a big difference between a ship journey log and a Krigstagbuch/diary. On the ship there is one in the bridge and one in the engine room, events written by pen on board. Both telling a story on board. The Krigstagbuch/diary is a land written story by who knows, who, long after the event takes place.
Gudbrandur Jónsson

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Re: Bismarck and the whistle blower.

Post by Herr Nilsson » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:21 pm

Source?
Regards

Marc

"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)

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Re: Bismarck and the whistle blower.

Post by Gudbrandur » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:53 pm

Herr Nilsson

The source is closer to you than to me. You schould contact Freiburgs Militærarciv and ask for the ships handwritten original journey log for the bridge and engineroom. This is what I have done, I want the original, not the typed version. I am now refering to the ships log, not the Krigstagebuch.
Gudbrandur Jónsson

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Re: Bismarck and the whistle blower.

Post by Herr Nilsson » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:12 pm

No, who says that the Kriegstagebuch is a landwritten story?
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Marc

"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)

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Re: Bismarck and the whistle blower.

Post by Gudbrandur » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:43 pm

Yes, Because there are information in the Krigstagebuch not known at the time of writing of the same buch. If the writing was at sea.
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Re: Bismarck and the whistle blower.

Post by Herr Nilsson » Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:57 pm

What informations?
Regards

Marc

"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)

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Re: Bismarck and the whistle blower.

Post by northcape » Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:25 pm

Don't feed the troll.

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