Bismarck second hit on PoW : HACS Director

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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: Bismarck second hit on PoW : HACS Director

Post by Antonio Bonomi »

Hello everybody,

please no fantasy theories ... we had enough in the past ... and also recently.

Leach said it did not happen, Rowell said it did not happen, the Admiralty stated it did not happen.

No official map or track chart shows it happened, the PoW gunnery plot shows no turns.

Conclusion, the turn did not happen before the retreat, ... and the HACS hit was taken after the Compass Platform one.

Bye Antonio :D
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )
dunmunro
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Re: Bismarck second hit on PoW : HACS Director

Post by dunmunro »

Antonio Bonomi wrote:Hello everybody,

please no fantasy theories ... we had enough in the past ... and also recently.

Leach said it did not happen, Rowell said it did not happen, the Admiralty stated it did not happen.

No official map or track chart shows it happened, the PoW gunnery plot shows no turns.

Conclusion, the turn did not happen before the retreat, ... and the HACS hit was taken after the Compass Platform one.

Bye Antonio :D
And the heavy hit felt aft by Leach?
And the hit felt after salvo 12 by the AFCT?
And the inability of the 5.25in guns to fire more than 3 salvos because the forward HADT was disabled?

You can't ignore these hard, cold, facts. Multiple witnesses on both sides state that PoW turned, and then turned radically towards and away from Bismarck.

Leach and Rowell also made statements that you don't agree with...
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tommy303
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Re: Bismarck second hit on PoW : HACS Director

Post by tommy303 »

It's not a fantasy Antonio. Leach, Rowell and the CYS simply stated the order had not been executed, that is the preparatory signal was still flying at the time of Hood's destruction. This is something the Admiralty Board would have understood and there would have been no reason to further describe what it meant as it would have been plain enough for anyone in the navy to understand (though not necessarily historians writing decades after the fact). On PoW, the Chief Yeoman of Signals would have informed Leach, "From Flag, 'turn 20* to port together.' He would have kept his telescope on the signal halyards and if he saw the signal flags come down, he would have told Leach, "Execute", and leach would have given the order 20* to port to both Rowell the NO, and the OOW in the conning tower. In this case the flags did not come down and so Leach could honestly state that he had not ordered a turn to comply. The OOW, on the other hand, mindful of standing orders to maintain position on the flagship would have ordered the quartermast at the helm to follow the flagship. On Hood, it is probable that the flag signal had been ordered down and Hood had begun her turn, but damage and casualties to the signal party might have prevented the flags from actually being lowered.

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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: Bismarck second hit on PoW : HACS Director

Post by Antonio Bonomi »

Hello everybody,

just look at photo Nh 69724, ...once you accept the most reliable time about Hood being hit and exploding at 06.00 ( almost ALL witnesses report this both sides plus the airplanes ) than you have the time and position of PoW and salvoes 13th, and 14th in the air on that photo.

NO one can put this in discussion. Period

Once this is clear you have to link it with PoW advancing at 28/29 knots as she did not stop.

It is enough to link it to salvo 16th on the film sequence, ... and you have PoW position aside Hood smoke pall. Images and space perfectly match with the maps and the relative distances.

Here it is : PoW turned toward the Germans ( Rowell avoidance manoeuvre enlarging from Hood wreck, reported by Jasper ) and than she went back on course 280T, ... ALL her turrets fired (salvo 16th possible ONLY on 280T course ) and she took the hit on the compass platform, ... half a minute to recover the shock and Leach ordered the retreat turning away, ... battle time 06.01 and 30 seconds.

YES, PoW did turn TOWARD ( Hood wreck avoidance ) and than AWAY ( her own retreat ) from the Germans, ... it is correct, ... as Jasper/Brinkmann reported too.

It his " difficult " to trust Leach about hits and their timings, ... just like the guns working, ... he changed his declarations too often.

The hit aft at salvo 12 is the real " mystery " it was not declared by Leach ... it could have been only a 203 or a 150 mm one, we simply do not know.

We have not enough details to check the secondary 5.25 inches ( 133 mm ) guns, ... only few inputs that do not match.

Bye Antonio :D
Last edited by Antonio Bonomi on Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )
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Alberto Virtuani
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Re: Bismarck second hit on PoW : HACS Director

Post by Alberto Virtuani »

@Tommy303:
Hi, in a very remotely hypothetical discussion, it could be as you suggest of course (the OOW independently ordering a turn to starboard to keep station as Hood was unable to lower her flag..... :think: ), however the fact that Leach and Rowell did not realize a turn was done at all and that the turn is NOT reported on all Rowell maps and not even on the Gunnery map (as well as the avoidance and counter-avoidance turn in this case), showing only course 280°, means that it was absolutely irrelevant for the overall ship course, for sure not a turn of 20° that would have been recorded.

By the way as Antonio correctly points out, even the avoidance turn DID NOT close PoW arcs, so more a rolling effect than a real course change.

Bye, Alberto


P.S. as the Hood rudder was found on the wreck in a position suggesting she was still turning (not yet 20° completed by the flagship therefore as in this case the rudder would have been straight) and due to the time needed to the OOW to realise that the flagship was turning, to order the turn and to get the 40000 tons PoW turning as well behind her, the course of PoW could not have changed a lot in any case..... :D
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