The one about the Crane Hit

[Antonio Bonomi]

Hello everybody,

@ Wadinga,

you wrote :

In fact is it not more likely that the Walrus, perched on the port end of the catapult is directly in the path of debris from the HA/DCT hit ? To me it seems likely that Coates has confused this 8" HA/DCT hit, with the crane hit which happened somewhere behind him, as the shelter of the funnel and him being a deck lower protected him from it.

His account of being knocked down, then seeing the burning Hood disappear when PoW's superstructure gets in the way fits very well with Paul's scenario, if it was the PG's 8" that knocked him down.

I thought that we had finished the discussion about Coates and the crane Nr. 3 hit being of course a 15 inches ( 380 mm shell ) from Bismarck.

Can you please explain me now which 8 inches ( 203 mm from Prinz Eugen ) shell are you talking about here ?

Bye Antonio

[wadinga]

Hi Alberto,

Looking at the side elevation in Raven & Roberts it is clear you are correct and that the Catapult officer's platform is at Boat deck level but directly in front of the funnel ie sheltered from direct fragment path. My estimate is that a standing man looking at the horizon can see over the P2 turret and his view is constrained only by the hangar after port corner.

Glad you at least think there is still something worth discussing

What is also obvious from your plan view is that debris from the crane head hit has to travel at virtually right angles to the imparted energy from the shell to hit the Walrus. Getting a billiard ball to depart at right angles to the imparted energy is only possible with a very fine cut, very high velocity and because of the precise shapes of the two balls. Bits accelerated from the crane head might be expected to travel largely in the direction of the shell. That is nowhere near the Walrus.

However if we consider debris from the HA/DCT hit made when PoW is on 260T by an 8" from PG it would be accelerated along the shell path, directly toward the Walrus, at the Port end of the catapult.

The important point about Coates is he has to be completely wrong about what he said he saw if the Conspiracy Theory scenario is true, as his view of Hood is never compromised. PoW sails around Hood's wreck and it is never obscured from his location. However if PoW followed Hood in a turn to port to 260T, PG scored the first hit on the HA/DCT support (hit B) and the flying debris showered down on the Walrus and Coates saw what he says he saw, it all fits rather nicely.

All the best

wadinga

[Alberto Virtuani]

Wadinga wrote:"Bits accelerated from the crane head might be expected to travel largely in the direction of the shell. That is nowhere near the Walrus."

Hi Sean, you are right, not a very probable trajectory but still possible.

However, your theory about the 8" shell (hit n.2) is much less probable because the shell that hit the fore directors support comes from 67° from the bow, therefore almost as improbable that splinters can travel at around the same right angle to reach the platform and the Walrus.
More, if the splinters were coming from that hit, they would have seriously damaged the fore funnel , the projector and the port Pom-Pom platforms (killing people there as well) because these are much closer to the impact point and on the same trajectory. There is NO sign of splinters in these places from the damage report and people from the Pom-Pom were asked questions at the board of Inquiry (as they were looking at Hood) and they never mention these splinters.

Unfortunately the turn to port never happened or at least (if we follow the only possible theory from Tommy that it was ordered independently by the OoW from he protected conning tower to keep station behind the Hood) it did not affect much the course of the ship (therefore not reported on any map) as even Hood was still turning when she exploded. Even following this theory, PoW would have just started the turn and for sure she did not turn 20° to port.

Bye, Alberto

[wadinga]

Hi Alberto, (or it Antonio?)

Don't forget the Walrus is close to launch. It is positioned at the extreme port end of the catapult with half the aircraft projecting over the side.

All the best

wadinga

[Alberto Virtuani]

@Wadinga,
Hi Sean, don't forget that the catapult control platform is amidship (so very much protected by the fore funnel) and the aft Pom-Pom platform is on the trajectory from the HALA directors support to the Walrus launch position. No splinter can reach both sites without causing damage to the fore funnel and to the open Pom-Pom platforms. No sign of them on damage report and Pom-Pom crew declarations.

Still the crane hit is much more probable.

Bye, Alberto

[Antonio Bonomi]

Hello everybody,

@ Wadinga,

you wrote :

However if we consider debris from the HA/DCT hit made when PoW is on 260T by an 8" from PG it would be accelerated along the shell path, directly toward the Walrus, at the Port end of the catapult.

What ???

Are you trying to sustain that now Coates was referring to the Hit Nr 2 on the forward HACS directors ?

So NOT anymore the Hit Nr 3 on the crane, ... now you try the Hit Nr 2 of the HACS forward directors ...

Do I read correctly what you are stating here ?

Are you sure ? Please confirm ...

Bye Antonio

[wadinga]

Hi Antonio,

Yes precisely.

In the excitement of action it is entirely reasonable Coates confused the effects of the shell which hit the crane and then exploded on the far side of the funnel from him, with the events associated with that which hit forward and high above him.

Let us remind ourselves what this "very good witness" said:

PETTY OFFICE CYRIL HENRY COATES, DJ 106924, ROYAL NAVY, "H.M.S. PRINCE OF WALES". Called and cautioned.

445. Are you Petty Officer Cyril Henry Coates, DJ 106924, Royal Navy, of H.M.S. Prince of Wales"?

Yes.

446. Where were you?

On the catapult control platform on the foremost side of the after funnel.

447. Were you watching the "Hood" closely?

Fairly closely.

448. Through glasses?

No.

449. Tell us what you saw?

I saw the "Hood" on our port bow and I saw several salvoes fall astern, just over and ahead.
Then one salvo appeared to strike right amidships.
I got the impression of a shower of sparks on the boat-deck not far abaft the after funnel about mid-ships.
It was followed then by one roll of flame from the after screen which enveloped the after turrets.
After that I did not see very much of the subsequent explosion because we had had a hit on the starboard crane which knocked me down.
As I got up the "Hood" had disappeared from sight.
I do not mean she was sunk, but was obscured by our superstructure.
I did not see the explosion.
All I saw was the reflection on our own ship.
I saw the "Hood" again.
I came down off the catapult control platform and we carried on steaming ahead of the "Hood", and all I recognized was the bows forepart.
They appeared to be turned completely round.

450. Did you see whether the doors were opened or closed on the torpedo tubes on the "Hood"?

I did not notice.

451. Did you hear anything?


No.

452. Are you quite definite the flames were beneath the boat-deck and came through the after screen on to the quarterdeck?


It gave me the impression the screen doors were blown off and an oily-looking flame came through on to the quarterdeck. The colour of the flame was "7" on exhibit 2.

453. Did you see either of the after turrets firing after that?

No.

WITNESS WITHDREW. (A VERY GOOD WITNESS).

I note the diagram from the Official report shows no splinters from the C hit 15" explosion behind the funnel going forward, only abeam and aft. Coates only says he was knocked down not that he was threatened by splinters. The after funnel photo shows how difficult it is for splinters to go forward to the Walrus, since the Port Crane is in the way. Additionally the forward half of the funnel shows no damage at all.

All the best

wadinga

[Antonio Bonomi]

Hello everybody,

@ Wadinga,

please read Coates carefully :

... because we had had a hit on the starboard crane which knocked me down.

Either he knew what he was telling the board of inquiry, ... so he was a trustable witness, ... or it was unreliable on everything.

He just lost the timing correlation of the events like many did on this battle ... since he did not have a close midshipman taking carefully the time with a ship clock ...

In fact he never refers to battle time ... just events from his memories ...

GAME OVER ! Try another one ....

Bye Antonio