What was the first message that informed the destruction of Hood

Discussions about the history of the ship, technical details, etc.
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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: What was the first message that informed the destruction of Hood

Post by Antonio Bonomi » Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:42 pm

Hello everybody,

@ Wadinga,

you wrote :
let’s remember it was just a movie- entertainment, not a precise recreation.
You are absolutely right !

Apart the fact that course and relative positions of both formations is incorrect ... simply mirrored and with Bismarck ahead of Prinz Eugen ... :shock:

It shows 8 persons ( :shock: ) into PoW Compass Platform and we do know there were probably only 5 persons in there : Capt Leach ( unhurt ), Rowell ( seriously wounded on face ), Gilbert ( lightly wounded on face ), Ince and Dreyer ( both killed ).

The movie shows an explosion on PoW Compass Platform front area ... it is obviously not true, ... the shell passed thru and exlpoded outside.

But interestingly it shows that the first thing Capt Leach did after the shell hit the compass platform was to order the retreat turning away on the still intact voice pipe.

It does show that message ( ? ) sent on the timeframe between Hood explosion and the compass Platform hit, together with a long elapsed battle time ( between 2.00 film counter and 4.50 film counter ) before Capt Leach ( alone ? what about Rowell and Gilbert ? ) abandoned the Compass Platform to go down into the conning tower, but it has been a shorter time.
A longer PoW vs Bismarck one-on-one engagement time and a shorter turn away time.
The film overall timing is almost correct because it shows Hood explosion at 2.00 and PoW already retreating releasing smoke at 5.00, ... so around 3 minutes after also on this movie.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=you ... &FORM=VIRE

In fact, all this occurred in the timeframe 06:00 and 5 seconds ( Hood explosion ) ... and 06:03 and some seconds ( Y turret firing backwards in local ) ... so around 3 minutes, ... according to Rowell map, the PoW Gunnery map and Hunter-Terry precise timing of those events.

Put it in the way you like it Sean, ... it was a 180-200 seconds timeframe ... more or less.

It would have been very interesting to have a declaration of the Chief Yeoman of Signal ( Gilbert ) about what happened and the signals he was sending and receiving all the way thru those events, ... including the PoW radio and signal logs.

Unfortunately we do not have it ... just like the tactical plots of Norfolk and Suffolk ... :think:

P.S. I wait for you answer now on the Bismarck firing procedure thread ... :wink: ...where we can see these 3 minutes from an other angle of visibility, ... but still ... just 3 minutes ... more or less.

Bye Antonio :D
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

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wadinga
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Re: What was the first message that informed the destruction of Hood

Post by wadinga » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:09 am

Hello Antonio,

After listing all the errors in the movie you keep cherry picking the bits you like
But interestingly it shows that the first thing Capt Leach did after the shell hit the compass platform was to order the retreat turning away on the still intact voice pipe.
Why would it be more interesting and valid that Leach was depicted using the voicepipe than the fact they showed Bismarck leading or firing the wrong way? Nobody who was there says Bismarck was leading or fired to starboard and nobody who was there says Leach stayed on the bridge. the report says he went down to the Conning Tower.

We know Sam Wood the Sick Berth Attendant was sucked through the hatch by the violence of the shell's passing and he was 5-10 metres away. We know Signal Boy Johnstone was smashed to pulp and unrecognisable (like Ince and Dreyer) and Leading Seaman Tucker had his femoral artery severed. We don't know whether they were inside the CP or outside. The sanitized version of the CP damage shown in the film minimizes the ghastly shambles it must have been. Leach was actually rendered unconscious and ruptured. I am sure I read that the Yeoman was rendered permanently deaf by the shockwave.

You Say
The movie shows an explosion on PoW Compass Platform front area ... it is obviously not true
What exactly would the difference between a devastating explosion and the devastating impact of an 800 kg projectile travelling at over half a kilometre a second (not far off Mach 2) in a confined space be?

Do you have an opinion on


"Starboard 15!"
"Starboard 15" someone repeats.
"Starboard 15" the helm acknowledges(?)



I am still contemplating all the excellent maps you have kindly reproduced. Watch this space..................... :angel:

All the best

wadinga
"There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"

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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: What was the first message that informed the destruction of Hood

Post by Antonio Bonomi » Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:43 am

Hello everybody,

@ Wadinga,

Sean apart the details we can see on the movie, of which the majority is surely incorrect, what count is what message the movie sequence is providing us.

The massage is that soon after Hood explosion we had a Captain in full control of the situation and keep on fighting the enemy with decision for quite some time, ... at least a couple of minutes, ... while even sending a message to the Admiralty ... and it was not like that.

In fact the movie tells " PoW and Bismarck exchanging fire " ... in reality PoW was firing last salvoes ( 15 and 16 ) toward the enemy while getting free of the Hood wreckage with a starboard ( 15° ??? ) avoidance turn ( Rowell ), ... and it was in that moment that Bismarck shell struck the compass platform as we can see on the real film ( salvo 16 ), ... just some seconds after Hood exploded, ... not 2 minutes after, ... it is enough for you to realize the time between salvos 14 and 16 to realize this timeframe correctly on the PoW gunnery plot, ... but you refuse to do it so far.

This timing is surely incorrect on the film " Sink the Bismarck ", .... guess why ?

Out of the only 3 minutes this all event took, ... it took only one minute to have the after explosion situation on the PoW compass platform and 2 minutes were spent turning away while making smoke and ordering the Y turret to fire backwards while disengaging soon after the 06:03. Reference existing PoW official maps and timing, and the Admiratly correction back to 06:03 of Adm Tovey " Cover Up " incorrect timing with 06:13 for PoW retreat ( :shock: ).

The movie shows the timing reversed, with 2 minutes before the Bismarck shell impact and only few seconds at the end for the turning away, ... and this is incorrect and done like that to provide at least a more positive way to realize the whole event, ... for obvious reasons.

Please study carefully the maps I have being analyzing more than 12 years ago while starting this all study, ... because you have a long way to go to realize the correct photo sequence and associate it to the German warship tracks.

Bye Antonio :-)
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

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