Channel Breakout

RF · Post by RF » Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:16 am

What is the shortest DIRECT sea route from north-west Germany to the Atlantic?

What would have happened on 23/24 May 1941, with Admiral Holland covering the Denmark Strait and Tovey the Iceland /Fareos gap, if instead Lutjens had taken Bismarck immediately after being sighted by the Gottland back through the Kiel Canal and then carried on WSW right the way down the English Channel, lob some shells into Dover, and join forces with Scharnhorst/Gneisenau in Brest?

The British presumably would have been taken by complete surprise and the Germans would have their full battle fleet concentrated for Atlantic operation. And the Royal Navy would have been completely outflanked....

Bgile · Post by **Bgile** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:42 pm

Remember the British were also taken by surprise in the actual channel dash, and the Luftwaffe had lots of preparation time. The British would presumably have reacted the same way, with little or no air cover for Bismarck.

RNfanDan · Post by **RNfanDan** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:40 pm

Agreed with Bgile on the air cover. It's interesting that both the British and German navies suffered from co-ordination of their respective land-based air services. While it is true that the RN did acquire some degree of control (with the FAA) and cooperation with the RAF, the contentious nature of the inter-service rivalry between Raeder and Göring was often not just an obstacle to the Kriegsmarine, but actually detrimental to its success in the war.

Although they would almost certainly have been caught off guard by such a move, the RAF would likely have gathered together enough aircraft to cause Bismarck some damage. Furthermore, Bismarck would have to traverse the numerous minefields near the eastern end of the channel (the same ones that caused damage later, during Cerberus). I think they may have pulled it off, but by the time Bismarck reached the Bay of Biscay it would probably no longer have been "mission-ready" for an extended open-ocean sortie.

Karl Heidenreich · Post by **Karl Heidenreich** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:04 pm

RNfanDan:

Agreed with Bgile on the air cover. It's interesting that both the British and German navies suffered from co-ordination of their respective land-based air services. While it is true that the RN did acquire some degree of control (with the FAA) and cooperation with the RAF, the contentious nature of the inter-service rivalry between Raeder and Göring was often not just an obstacle to the Kriegsmarine, but actually detrimental to its success in the war.

I understand that big, fat Goering hated Kriegsmarine and Admiral Raeder in particular.

marcelo_malara · Post by **marcelo_malara** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:07 am

Cerberus had a previous thorough minesweeping operation. I think the same couldn´t had been done in a rush to allow Bismarck to pass thru the English Channel.

RF · Post by RF » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:04 am

marcelo_malara wrote:Cerberus had a previous thorough minesweeping operation. I think the same couldn´t had been done in a rush to allow Bismarck to pass thru the English Channel.

Use minesweeper escorts!!

Also as Barbarossa didn't start for another month the Luftwaffe would have been able to provide a much greater degree of air cover than in the Thunderbolt operation.

phil gollin · Post by **phil gollin** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:34 am

RNfanDan wrote:Agreed with Bgile on the air cover. It's interesting that both the British and German navies suffered from co-ordination of their respective land-based air services. While it is true that the RN did acquire some degree of control (with the FAA) and cooperation with the RAF..........

A bit unfair as far as WW2 goes. The RAF had a radar equipped aircraft "watching" Brest, but unfortunately on the night of the breakout it developed a fault and a replacement, which should have been sent, wasn't.