Hits on PoW and Bismarck
Moderator: Bill Jurens
- Herr Nilsson
- Senior Member
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- Location: Germany
Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck
Antonio,
I understand. You need to know what you want to do.
Alberto,
maybe you are right, maybe you're wrong. Anyway, I am not paranoid. I myself don't have to insult anyone.
I understand. You need to know what you want to do.
Alberto,
maybe you are right, maybe you're wrong. Anyway, I am not paranoid. I myself don't have to insult anyone.
Regards
Marc
"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
Marc
"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
- Antonio Bonomi
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:44 am
- Location: Vimercate ( Milano ) - Italy
Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck
Hello everybody,
Bill Jurens wrote on Monday September 24th, 2018 at 4:59 pm
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5752&start=690#p80396
Surely those were NOT the exact details being provided to the Admiralty thru the Adm Tovey dispatches, ... isn't it ?
It does not take much to realize what really have happened as we all have realized quite well by now.
Call it the way you like it, ... that is what happened because it is proven by the existing documents. End of the story.
Bye Antonio
Bill Jurens wrote on Monday September 24th, 2018 at 4:59 pm
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5752&start=690#p80396
After this Bill Jurens himself confirmed with the 3 answers : NO ... about the details provided by Adm Tovey ( the 06:13, the Y turret jamming and the 2 heavy cruisers distance ) being correct.
I do believe that there were those on the British side who, after the clear drubbing the R.N. had taken at Denmark Strait, suggested, at least in the heat of the moment , that a Board of Inquiry, and perhaps even consideration of a C.M. ( Court Martial ) were appropriate. That was a product of hot heads -- some lacking tactical and technical knowledge -- coupled with a lack of immediate knowledge regarding the exact details of what happened.
Surely those were NOT the exact details being provided to the Admiralty thru the Adm Tovey dispatches, ... isn't it ?
It does not take much to realize what really have happened as we all have realized quite well by now.
Call it the way you like it, ... that is what happened because it is proven by the existing documents. End of the story.
Bye Antonio
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )
- Antonio Bonomi
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck
Hello everybody,
@ Herr Nillson,
you wrote :
You do not know me well enough.
That was only to show teamwork and good cooperation.
But as far as I can see, very few like to do it here in while they are just coming here throwing stones, offending and raise any possible doubt they can.
Not a problem, ... I will keep on going, ... kicking ass and taking no prisoners.
Bye Antonio
@ Herr Nillson,
you wrote :
Do you really think that I do not have already translated that set of statements myself ?I understand. You need to know what you want to do.
You do not know me well enough.
That was only to show teamwork and good cooperation.
But as far as I can see, very few like to do it here in while they are just coming here throwing stones, offending and raise any possible doubt they can.
Not a problem, ... I will keep on going, ... kicking ass and taking no prisoners.
Bye Antonio
Last edited by Antonio Bonomi on Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )
- Alberto Virtuani
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck
Hello everybody,
Bye, Alberto
This is not what I think of Mr.Nilsson, because paranoia is an illness, not a severe deficiency of the temper....Herr Nilsson wrote: "I am not paranoid"
Bye, Alberto
"It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition" (Adm.A.B.Cunningham)
"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)
"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)
- Herr Nilsson
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck
@Antonio
My answer was in regard of your post before you have edited it. Anyway:
@Alberto
...and out of curiosity: Why do you always have to talk to an audience?
My answer was in regard of your post before you have edited it. Anyway:
Antonio, of course you don‘t need any translation of any German book about Bismarck. You always do your homework. I‘m not as stupid as you might think.Antonio Bonomi wrote: ↑Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:53 pm
Do you really think that I do not have already translated that set of statements myself ?
You do not know me well enough.
That was only to show teamwork and good cooperation.
@Alberto
Means what?Alberto Virtuani wrote: ↑Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:53 pm Hello everybody,
This is not what I think of Mr.Nilsson, because paranoia is an illness, not a severe deficiency of the temper....Herr Nilsson wrote: "I am not paranoid"
Bye, Alberto
...and out of curiosity: Why do you always have to talk to an audience?
Regards
Marc
"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
Marc
"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
- Antonio Bonomi
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck
Hello everybody,
new references from a 2002 battle map, … made before I even started working on my one on June 2003.
We can clearly see the Bismarck course ( 220 ° ) when she was under the PoW fire and the PoW shells incoming direction consequently ( 330 ° ).
I can guarantee I did not do any plagiarism, ... since I have found it only recently and well after I released my one on 2005, which is anyhow more precise.
@ Herr Nillson,
I have never thought that you are stupid, … otherwise I was not even talking to you, … in fact you are not.
Bye Antonio
new references from a 2002 battle map, … made before I even started working on my one on June 2003.
We can clearly see the Bismarck course ( 220 ° ) when she was under the PoW fire and the PoW shells incoming direction consequently ( 330 ° ).
I can guarantee I did not do any plagiarism, ... since I have found it only recently and well after I released my one on 2005, which is anyhow more precise.
@ Herr Nillson,
I have never thought that you are stupid, … otherwise I was not even talking to you, … in fact you are not.
Bye Antonio
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )
- Alberto Virtuani
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck
Hello everybody,
Bye, Alberto
I address directly only people that I respect. Mr.Nilsson is on my black list among the worst insulting deniers, since he revealed his low nature viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5752&p=80384&hilit=amusing#p80384.Herr Nilsson wrote: "Why do you always have to talk to an audience?"
Bye, Alberto
"It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition" (Adm.A.B.Cunningham)
"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)
"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)
- Alberto Virtuani
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- Location: Milan (Italy)
Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck
Hi Antonio,Antonio Bonomi wrote: "We can clearly see the Bismarck course ( 220 ° ) when she was under the PoW fire"
nice map, not very respectful of PG battlemap, but at least done by someone who (differently from Mr.Wadinga) was clever enough to understand that Bismarck could not have been on a more westerly course than 220° before Hood explosion, as per PoW salvo plot.
I must say I think I have seen it but I don't remember where exactly.
Bye, Alberto
"It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition" (Adm.A.B.Cunningham)
"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)
"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)
- Antonio Bonomi
- Senior Member
- Posts: 3799
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:44 am
- Location: Vimercate ( Milano ) - Italy
Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck
Hello everybody,
@ Alberto Virtuani,
everyone should have realized by now that the event that made Bismarck turning west on course 270° from course 220° was the torpedo alarm issued by the Prinz Eugen at 06:03 battle time ( Ref. the PG KTB and her battle map torpedo alarm reference indication ), … and not before.
By 06:03 the PoW had already turned away and we could see her last 4 shells falling on the water on photo Nh 69731 ( 2 of them ) and on the film and photos after 1+1 last shells fired by the Y turret in local control.
To be noted that correctly the above map does correlate with the film and photos sequence, … just as indicated by the Schmalenbach 1978 and the Baron 1980 maps do as explained in the 1978 map caption.
Elementary Watson, ... just elementary, ...
Bye Antonio
@ Alberto Virtuani,
everyone should have realized by now that the event that made Bismarck turning west on course 270° from course 220° was the torpedo alarm issued by the Prinz Eugen at 06:03 battle time ( Ref. the PG KTB and her battle map torpedo alarm reference indication ), … and not before.
By 06:03 the PoW had already turned away and we could see her last 4 shells falling on the water on photo Nh 69731 ( 2 of them ) and on the film and photos after 1+1 last shells fired by the Y turret in local control.
To be noted that correctly the above map does correlate with the film and photos sequence, … just as indicated by the Schmalenbach 1978 and the Baron 1980 maps do as explained in the 1978 map caption.
Elementary Watson, ... just elementary, ...
Bye Antonio
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )
- Herr Nilsson
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- Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:19 am
- Location: Germany
Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck
Are you serious? That sounds quite silly and reminds me of „Little Lord Fauntleroy“.Alberto Virtuani wrote: ↑Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:53 pm Hello everybody,
I address directly only people that I respect. Mr.Nilsson is on my black list among the worst insulting deniers, since he revealed his low nature viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5752&p=80384&hilit=amusing#p80384.Herr Nilsson wrote: "Why do you always have to talk to an audience?"
Bye, Alberto
Regards
Marc
"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
Marc
"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
- Alberto Virtuani
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- Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:22 am
- Location: Milan (Italy)
Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck
Hello everybody,
this denier, ignoring what he said (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5752&p=80384&hilit=amusing#p80384), reminds me of this:
Me ? Not at all.....
Bye, Alberto
this denier, ignoring what he said (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5752&p=80384&hilit=amusing#p80384), reminds me of this:
Me ? Not at all.....
Bye, Alberto
"It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition" (Adm.A.B.Cunningham)
"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)
"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)
- Herr Nilsson
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1585
- Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:19 am
- Location: Germany
Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck
@Alberto
Eh?
I said what I said and like I had assessed you right that you would misinterpreted it intentionally.
Eh?
I said what I said and like I had assessed you right that you would misinterpreted it intentionally.
Regards
Marc
"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
Marc
"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck
I said I would refrain from further postings for a while, but just for the record, the uncredited map put up here a few memos ago is mine, prepared, I think, for my Warship International article on the Loss of HMS Hood. I have published it, or near variants thereof, to accompany various and sundry other articles and analyses as well.
It really shouldn't be used or interpreted without at the same time reading the accompanying text, which describes in more detail how it was derived.
Bill Jurens
It really shouldn't be used or interpreted without at the same time reading the accompanying text, which describes in more detail how it was derived.
Bill Jurens
- Alberto Virtuani
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:22 am
- Location: Milan (Italy)
Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck
@Mr.Nilsson,
Uh ?
Mr.Nilsson has already been told by other people (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5752&hilit=amusing&start=675#p80387) that there was NO misunderstanding at all and that he was such a poor person to be able to find amusing the anti-nationalistic mocking about a tragedy.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5752&p=80384&hilit=amusing#p80384
If Mr.Nilsson is too dumb (to use a nice word) to see the mocking, his problem, this will not change his well deserved position in my black list....
Uh ?
Mr.Nilsson has already been told by other people (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5752&hilit=amusing&start=675#p80387) that there was NO misunderstanding at all and that he was such a poor person to be able to find amusing the anti-nationalistic mocking about a tragedy.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5752&p=80384&hilit=amusing#p80384
If Mr.Nilsson is too dumb (to use a nice word) to see the mocking, his problem, this will not change his well deserved position in my black list....
"It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition" (Adm.A.B.Cunningham)
"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)
"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)
- Herr Nilsson
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1585
- Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:19 am
- Location: Germany
Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck
@Alberto
The existence (or non-existence) of your black list has no relevance for me.
The existence (or non-existence) of your black list has no relevance for me.
Regards
Marc
"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
Marc
"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)