Hits on PoW and Bismarck

Discussions about the history of the ship, technical details, etc.

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Herr Nilsson
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck

Post by Herr Nilsson »

Antonio,

I understand. You need to know what you want to do.

Alberto,

maybe you are right, maybe you're wrong. Anyway, I am not paranoid. I myself don't have to insult anyone.
Regards

Marc

"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck

Post by Antonio Bonomi »

Hello everybody,

Bill Jurens wrote on Monday September 24th, 2018 at 4:59 pm

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5752&start=690#p80396

I do believe that there were those on the British side who, after the clear drubbing the R.N. had taken at Denmark Strait, suggested, at least in the heat of the moment , that a Board of Inquiry, and perhaps even consideration of a C.M. ( Court Martial ) were appropriate. That was a product of hot heads -- some lacking tactical and technical knowledge -- coupled with a lack of immediate knowledge regarding the exact details of what happened.
After this Bill Jurens himself confirmed with the 3 answers : NO ... about the details provided by Adm Tovey ( the 06:13, the Y turret jamming and the 2 heavy cruisers distance ) being correct.

Surely those were NOT the exact details being provided to the Admiralty thru the Adm Tovey dispatches, ... isn't it ?

It does not take much to realize what really have happened as we all have realized quite well by now.
Call it the way you like it, ... that is what happened because it is proven by the existing documents. End of the story.

Bye Antonio
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )
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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck

Post by Antonio Bonomi »

Hello everybody,

@ Herr Nillson,

you wrote :
I understand. You need to know what you want to do.
Do you really think that I do not have already translated that set of statements myself ?

You do not know me well enough.

That was only to show teamwork and good cooperation.

But as far as I can see, very few like to do it here in while they are just coming here throwing stones, offending and raise any possible doubt they can.

Not a problem, ... I will keep on going, ... kicking ass and taking no prisoners.

Bye Antonio
Last edited by Antonio Bonomi on Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )
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Alberto Virtuani
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck

Post by Alberto Virtuani »

Hello everybody,
Herr Nilsson wrote: "I am not paranoid"
This is not what I think of Mr.Nilsson, because paranoia is an illness, not a severe deficiency of the temper....


Bye, Alberto
"It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition" (Adm.A.B.Cunningham)

"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)
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Herr Nilsson
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck

Post by Herr Nilsson »

@Antonio

My answer was in regard of your post before you have edited it. Anyway:
Antonio Bonomi wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:53 pm
Do you really think that I do not have already translated that set of statements myself ?

You do not know me well enough.

That was only to show teamwork and good cooperation.
Antonio, of course you don‘t need any translation of any German book about Bismarck. You always do your homework. I‘m not as stupid as you might think.

@Alberto
Alberto Virtuani wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:53 pm Hello everybody,
Herr Nilsson wrote: "I am not paranoid"
This is not what I think of Mr.Nilsson, because paranoia is an illness, not a severe deficiency of the temper....


Bye, Alberto
Means what?
...and out of curiosity: Why do you always have to talk to an audience?
Regards

Marc

"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck

Post by Antonio Bonomi »

Hello everybody,

new references from a 2002 battle map, … made before I even started working on my one on June 2003.

We can clearly see the Bismarck course ( 220 ° ) when she was under the PoW fire and the PoW shells incoming direction consequently ( 330 ° ).

DS_2002_battle_map.jpg
DS_2002_battle_map.jpg (26.47 KiB) Viewed 712 times

I can guarantee I did not do any plagiarism, ... since I have found it only recently and well after I released my one on 2005, which is anyhow more precise.


@ Herr Nillson,

I have never thought that you are stupid, … otherwise I was not even talking to you, … in fact you are not.

Bye Antonio
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )
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Alberto Virtuani
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck

Post by Alberto Virtuani »

Hello everybody,
Herr Nilsson wrote: "Why do you always have to talk to an audience?"
I address directly only people that I respect. Mr.Nilsson is on my black list among the worst insulting deniers, since he revealed his low nature viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5752&p=80384&hilit=amusing#p80384. :kaput:


Bye, Alberto
"It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition" (Adm.A.B.Cunningham)

"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)
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Alberto Virtuani
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck

Post by Alberto Virtuani »

Antonio Bonomi wrote: "We can clearly see the Bismarck course ( 220 ° ) when she was under the PoW fire"
Hi Antonio,
nice map, not very respectful of PG battlemap, but at least done by someone who (differently from Mr.Wadinga) was clever enough to understand that Bismarck could not have been on a more westerly course than 220° before Hood explosion, as per PoW salvo plot. :clap:

I must say I think I have seen it but I don't remember where exactly.


Bye, Alberto
"It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition" (Adm.A.B.Cunningham)

"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)
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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck

Post by Antonio Bonomi »

Hello everybody,

@ Alberto Virtuani,

everyone should have realized by now that the event that made Bismarck turning west on course 270° from course 220° was the torpedo alarm issued by the Prinz Eugen at 06:03 battle time ( Ref. the PG KTB and her battle map torpedo alarm reference indication ), … and not before.

By 06:03 the PoW had already turned away and we could see her last 4 shells falling on the water on photo Nh 69731 ( 2 of them ) and on the film and photos after 1+1 last shells fired by the Y turret in local control.


To be noted that correctly the above map does correlate with the film and photos sequence, … just as indicated by the Schmalenbach 1978 and the Baron 1980 maps do as explained in the 1978 map caption.

Elementary Watson, ... just elementary, ...

Bye Antonio
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )
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Herr Nilsson
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck

Post by Herr Nilsson »

Alberto Virtuani wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:53 pm Hello everybody,
Herr Nilsson wrote: "Why do you always have to talk to an audience?"
I address directly only people that I respect. Mr.Nilsson is on my black list among the worst insulting deniers, since he revealed his low nature viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5752&p=80384&hilit=amusing#p80384. :kaput:


Bye, Alberto
Are you serious? That sounds quite silly and reminds me of „Little Lord Fauntleroy“.
Regards

Marc

"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
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Alberto Virtuani
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck

Post by Alberto Virtuani »

Hello everybody,

this denier, ignoring what he said (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5752&p=80384&hilit=amusing#p80384), reminds me of this:

I'm not the one.png
I'm not the one.png (56.19 KiB) Viewed 678 times

Me ? Not at all.....


Bye, Alberto
"It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition" (Adm.A.B.Cunningham)

"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)
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Herr Nilsson
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck

Post by Herr Nilsson »

@Alberto
Eh?
I said what I said and like I had assessed you right that you would misinterpreted it intentionally.
Regards

Marc

"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck

Post by Bill Jurens »

I said I would refrain from further postings for a while, but just for the record, the uncredited map put up here a few memos ago is mine, prepared, I think, for my Warship International article on the Loss of HMS Hood. I have published it, or near variants thereof, to accompany various and sundry other articles and analyses as well.

It really shouldn't be used or interpreted without at the same time reading the accompanying text, which describes in more detail how it was derived.

Bill Jurens
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Alberto Virtuani
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck

Post by Alberto Virtuani »

@Mr.Nilsson,

Uh ?
Mr.Nilsson has already been told by other people (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5752&hilit=amusing&start=675#p80387) that there was NO misunderstanding at all and that he was such a poor person to be able to find amusing the anti-nationalistic mocking about a tragedy.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5752&p=80384&hilit=amusing#p80384

If Mr.Nilsson is too dumb (to use a nice word) to see the mocking, his problem, this will not change his well deserved position in my black list.... :kaput:
"It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition" (Adm.A.B.Cunningham)

"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)
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Herr Nilsson
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Re: Hits on PoW and Bismarck

Post by Herr Nilsson »

@Alberto
The existence (or non-existence) of your black list has no relevance for me.
Regards

Marc

"Thank God we blow up and sink more easily." (unknown officer from HMS Norfolk)
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