Alberto Virtuani wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:54 pmHello everybody,
totally pointless because Mr.Jurens has no way to counter what Antonio Bonomi has written in his mails or the reasons why, albeit "embracing" in toto Antonio's reconstruction (almost at single pixel level...), he has played his moderator role against him only...Bill Jurens wrote: "As it would be pointless to attempt to reply to Mr. Virtuani's diatribe in detail..."
To do so, Mr.Jurens should be kind enough to post here the pag.211 battlemap from his book, in order to allow everyone to compare it with Antonio's 2005 one (already available here download/file.php?id=3583) and with the "very similar" one from P.Toussaint (also available here download/file.php?id=3193)...Bill Jurens wrote: "...I would suggest those interested to examine the track charts in detail. "
If he dares to do so, we will all have a lot of fun looking for the "similarities" and the "differences". I don't think he will...
...as usual, as soon as the discussion becomes embarrassing and very inconvenient for him, he locks threads.Bill Jurens wrote: "Should future content remain overly aggressive and offensive in tone, or should no commentary arrive at all, I will thereafter lock the thread."
I'm using very polite tones, compared to others, not calling Mr.Jurens a "troll" in public as his supporters have just called me without any due punishment and without any lock to the thread (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6728&start=2250#p84790).
Locking threads to escape responsibilities will simply not work.
Finally, please, don't play the victim here ! You are not.
Short of putting a "crazy Ivan" in to the chart just how different would any battle map be? Does it come down to the timing ? If so whose timing?
Does it actually matter? The net result will still be the same Hood sunk,POW damaged,Bismarck abandons her operation.
To be frank I don't think anybody cares about the battle map particularly anyway.
It's the jump that followed that has raised eyebrows and blood pressure with the whole cover up/cowardice/timidity thesis with basically relies on the proposers interpretation of what was said and how they said it but not always including the context.
As a last point. We are lucky to have a world renowned author and expert as a moderator in Bill Jurens. You may not like him, you may not agree with him but we are lucky to have him. I suspect that half the issue is that for may years you were able to dictate the flow and now you feel your wings have been clipped. Thats life, you had a good run and hopefully a semblance of balance can be achieved. Having been on the receiving end of you tongue its clear that you are no shrinking violet and shouldn't be claiming foul either.
The sad thing is that the actual discussion dries up when there is no playground spats.
Perhaps that is a sign that new information is lacking and all that happens is arguing over the minutiae of what happened at 04:41 and point 0.2 of a second. This seems to be the typical flow:
Did Holland have a mug of cocoa or not?
Briggs said yes, Dundas said he had tea.
Tilburn said he also had a cheese sandwich because he saw it being taken to the compass platform.
Dundas said it was egg and that Holland accidentally spilt some egg on the chart that caused him to be 10 degrees off course because the grease of the egg wiped away part of the track.
Briggs said it was a pickle and that the chart was good.
A German source, captain of U-boat 0007 says that he saw Tilburn having a fag under the shield of his 4 inch mount and couldn't possibly have seen anybody from his smoking point.
Newfoundland fishermen says that he saw U-boat 0007 and he couldn't have seen HMS Hood cos' he saw U 0007 and their position was 200 miles south. What U-0007 must have saw was the factory fishing ship SS Red Herring.
Ahh,but who do you trust? The Newfoundlers navigation skills or those of the all conquering Kreigsmarine!
Of course you can't prove Briggs,Tilburn or Dundas wrong because (A) the chart is at the bottom of the sea - if it wasn't incinerated and (B) all the survivors are dead!
And on it goes.