World best soldiers ever

Armed conflicts in the history of humanity from the ancient times to the 20th Century.

World best soldiers ever

Postby Karl Heidenreich » Thu May 10, 2007 4:24 pm

Hey guys,

For the fun of it: which were the best soldiers the world has ever seen?

1. The Spartans
2. The Samurais
3. The Roman legions
4. The ancient chinese
5. The templar knights
6. The British guys at Agincourt
7. The Napoleonic legions
8. The British soldiers at Waterloo
9. The Japanese Imperial soldiers
10. The Waffen SS Panzer Troops circa 1942-1943
11. The Africa Korps
12. The Desert rats
13. Patton´s third army
14. The Russian Army
15. The US Airborne Divisions of WW2
16. The Marines
17. The Viet Cong
18. The French Foreing Legion
19. Che Guevara revolutionaries
20. The israeli army fro 1960 thru 1980
21. Nowaday hipertechnological US Army
22. Special Forces

OK?

I´ll go for the Spartans and Samurais in a draw in the first slot.
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Postby Gary » Thu May 10, 2007 5:00 pm

My Grandad was an infrantyman in WW2.
He said he always felt 10 times better when he and his comrades were acompanied by Gurkha's.

There is a myth (and I dont know if its true) that the Gurkha's would move silently at night, feel a mans boot laces and if they werent laced up the regulation British army way then they assumed the guy was German and cut his throat with their fearsome Khukuri knife.

The Gurkha's get my vote.
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Postby Laurenz » Thu May 10, 2007 5:37 pm

Difficult.
The Waffen SS is not really to use, because she was the only ever existing
international troup at this time and before.
So you will find many different nationalities, not particular german.
Berlin was defended by 400 french guys in 1945.
Leon Degrelle from Vallonie was perhaps the most famous foreigner in the Waffen SS.
In a way the same counts for the French Foreing Legion.
At Dien Pen Puh (Vietnam) most of them were Waffen SS guys.

Dear Karl, you might forgot the Janitshares, life guard of the Padyshah
or the most sucsessful guys in getting territory, the Kosaks.
The Spartans and the Samurais were maybe the best. But caused by their structure in mind they nihilated themselves.

Nowaday hipertechnological US Army, lol, you might ask the wrong question. I propose the correct question is, who are the best progamers?
:-)
Kind regards,
L.
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Postby Alatriste » Thu May 10, 2007 6:03 pm

My vote goes to the Spanish Infantry of the XVI century.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAcrIr84OdQ
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Postby Karl Heidenreich » Thu May 10, 2007 6:13 pm

Alatriste:

I was wondering about your "name". It´s from the character of Pérez Riverte, isn´t it?

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Postby Alatriste » Thu May 10, 2007 6:32 pm

Yes Alatriste from Pérez Reverte.
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Postby Karl Heidenreich » Thu May 10, 2007 9:46 pm

Alatriste:

I read Pérez Riverte fictional account of "Cabo Trafalgar". Beautiful as Pérez Galdós classical. Real good.

Best regards.
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Postby Bgile » Fri May 11, 2007 2:57 am

I think there is little to choose between very small organizations of "elite" forces such as SAS or SEALS.

For the most competent average soldier by nationality, I would go with:

1. German Infantry in mid WWII.

2. Modern US Soldiers.

And there is very little gadgetry involved in being a grunt. It's mainly good training, equipment, leadership, personal initiative, and fitness. That hasn't changed much since the Spartans.
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Postby Gary » Fri May 11, 2007 5:27 pm

Not meaning to knock the USA but The British SAS, The Russian Spetznez and the Israeli special forces are all considered better than "Delta Force" (US Special forces)
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Postby Bgile » Fri May 11, 2007 8:34 pm

Gary wrote:Not meaning to knock the USA but The British SAS, The Russian Spetznez and the Israeli special forces are all considered better than "Delta Force" (US Special forces)


Considered by whom? Are you considering SEAL teams to be part of Delta Force?

I have a lot of respect for SAS, but how do you measure such a thing? Send them on identical missions and have the enemy grade them? I am retired from the US Navy (Intelligence) and I wasn't ever briefed on SEAL operations or their success compared to SAS or Spetznez (sp?), so I'm not sure how you can be so sure you can make such a statement.

I was under the impression that British and Russian forces had been degraded quite a bit in the last few years due to not having sufficient money for training. Perhaps special forces don't have those problems.

The only thing I've heard about Spetznaz lately is they are good at slaughtering Chetchen villagers. What recent conflicts have they been involved in.
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Postby MJQ » Fri May 11, 2007 9:02 pm

The late Stephen Ambrose wrote that the US Army Rangers were, at the time of the Normandy landings in June 1944, the best soldiers in the world.

Interesting questions, but very subjective.
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Postby Karl Heidenreich » Fri May 11, 2007 9:41 pm

According to the book "Band of Brothers" Stephen Ambrose interviewed a guy from Easy Company that fought in WW2, Korea, Nam and was aware of nowaday US infrantryman.
And this guy was plain clear that it was the WW2 airborne soldier the top of the crop. I believe that nowaday soldiers are very good, specially the US and Brit ones that are the ones fighting while the others are watching TV in their HQ. But I believe that the best soldiers are to be watch upon in extreme conditions and since WW2 the US has not been in such a desperate combat position.
If I have to choose for a contemporary "best soldier" then I will vote for the 42-43 Waffen SS Panzer trooper, even over nowadays Special Forces which, as far as I know, haven´t achieved what are expected from them.
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Postby iankw » Sat May 12, 2007 12:00 am

Unfortunately the British troops at Waterloo made up only about a third of the army. The "British" army was mainly Dutch, Belgians, and some minor "German" states. Thank goodness recent histories are correcting the false image that was prevalent for so long.

As to which are the best soldiers, that's a tough one. The German WW1 armies fought well, the samurai are exceptionally skilled fighters, the Ghurkas have a reputation for toughness, the Roman legions were extremely efficient and inventive, the small British professional army in WW1 was good too, and best not forget Napoleon's Old Guard. Overall I think I'd go for the Romans.

regards

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Postby Laurenz » Sat May 12, 2007 12:23 pm

Sometimes TV repeats a report about the education of the freign legion in French Guayana.
Very impressive.
In this discussion is a lack about the circumstances in a comaprison.
U.S. American units usually fought since WWI with a technological and material advantage. Sometimes they had simply the much bigger army.
In the last (third) gulf war, regular troups of Saddam who tried to defend Bagdad had never seen their enemy. As i mentioned above, the Amercans used simply their joysticks.
The last real battles among regular troups against the U.S. army did the Japanese and the Germans.
Everybody has learned that this is no way. (But could somebody imagine Japanese or Germans as guerilla fighters?)
So we have the result in Vietnam or Iraq that the U.S. lost these later wars.

According to Ian we would have to test such a comparison.
500 marines verse 500 foreign legionaers in a limited area, with same weapons or without weapons.
I suggest the French would win :-)

Kind regards;
L.

PS:The divers are the best unit of Bundeswehr. Very hard training.
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Postby Orville H. Larson » Sun May 13, 2007 8:15 am

Maybe the Roman legions were the world's best infantry.
Their iron discipline and harsh training made them virtually unbeatable (and they were rarely defeated, if I'm not mistaken).

American infantry in WW2 was of uneven quality. Our mass army had to be assembled quickly, and the qualilty of their basic training may or may not have been adequate.
Many of its officers had little, if any, combat experience.
Some divisions (the 1st, the 3rd, the 28th) were great, while others (the 27th, the 106th) couldn't hack it.

An American division in the ETO in WW2 needed 700 tons of supplies a day to keep going. A German division, on the other hand, had to get by on 200 tons a day as the war went on--and they fought hard right to the end of the war.

I believe the Germans themselves, comparing their British and American adversaries, considered American armor and artillery to be the best, while the British were superb with infantry.
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