Obama or McCain - who would you vote for?

[Vic Dale]

Yes, after a 50 year struggle with altzheimers he finally sucumbed.

[Legend]

Dude, I just heard that Sarah Palen is going to my high school for one of her rallies. Of the four, I think she is the worst person to enter office, though I was thinking of going since how often does an electee make a visit two blocks down from your house? It is going to be a rat's nest at my place. The football stands are strong enough, but for all the people in my (unfortunately) densely populated area that wants to come see her... that's ALLOT of people.

[Karl Heidenreich]

Legend:

Dude, I just heard that Sarah Palen is going to my high school for one of her rallies. Of the four, I think she is the worst person to enter office,

Since Reagan who has been at the level of the office?

[Legend]

Alright, let me rephrase that, I think she is the worst in the current running...

[minoru genda]

OBAMA WON!

[Karl Heidenreich]

For the sake of all the world let s hope this guy perform better than the last three dudes that sat at the Oval Office (Or at least better than "W"). I don t believe he will be a pro military guy, but on the other hand don t expect to see another Carter.

If he seeks peaceful relations with the Russians that s cool (they are the important guys, not weak and treachorous NATO). If he seeks how to pull out of Irak that s cool. If he seeks to get Osama that s super cool. And if he insults France then he could be a hero (that s a joke, dont even bother to quote and critize the remark) . I am worried about Iran and Chavez. Let s see his approach to that problems.

For all Americans: your democracy proved again to be the first in the world. I congratulate America for it: God bless you and your beatifull country.

Best regards!!

[Bgile]

Thanks, Karl ... that was very nice. You are a class act!

Obama has impressed me so far, but he has a very tough job ahead of him. Times are not the greatest.

[lwd]

My feeling both now and hsortly before the election was that Obama probably had more upside potential than McCain but more down side as well. I thought McCain was the better choice but that's water under the bridge now. I just hope Obama lives up to the upside potential he obviously has. I also hope he gets the proper credit for what he does both good and bad. I can see him doing a great job and because of things beyond his controll (both the economy and foreign relations wise) things not working out well and him getting the blame. Conversly if the he could do a mediorcre job and because of things already in place the US could be in a much better situation four years from now and he'll get the credit. Time will tell.

[Bgile]

I had a great deal of respect for McCain before the election, but I feel a bit differently now. First, he chose Sarah Palin as a running mate. As Colin Powell said, she lacks "intellectual curiousity". She reminds me a lot of W. A nice drinking buddy.

Then, he got on board with the attack ads in the last couple of weeks. Politics of fear. It was terrible, and there were some lies propagated. Obama could have done the same thing, but he stayed above that.

He did make a very good resignation speech and if he really believes what he said, we may have some good things in store for the future. I'd have taken it at face value a few weeks ago.

Anyway, the important thing now is to look forward. These are trying times and some things are almost beyond a President's ability to do very much. I do think Obama is a very smart guy (obviously ... Harvard Magna Cum Lauda) and an inspirational speaker. If he makes good cabinet choices, who knows what he is capable of?

[lwd]

...
Then, he got on board with the attack ads in the last couple of weeks. Politics of fear. It was terrible, and there were some lies propagated. Obama could have done the same thing, but he stayed above that...

He hardly stayed above it. He actually spent more on attack adds than McCain at least according to NPR. As for lies the whole Democratic campaign was based on Obama is not Bush but McCain is. The first half was correct the second half was and is a lie.

[Vic Dale]

So what is going to change? US foreign policy? I doubt it.

The only difference between the Republicans and Democrats is they are both the same (pharaphrased from the Ragged Trousered Philanthropists - by Robert Tressel).

Whilst everyone is hyperventilating about getting a black president - a wealthy, priviledged and middle class, black president - it is likely that the nation will take it's eye off the ball and only when he is about to leave office after one or two terms in office, it will probably dawn on a few Americans that when he said "It's time for change!" He was just talking about getting himself into office. After all isn't that exactly what all career politicians do when they run for ofiice? Why should it be so different for Obama, just because he is black?

When Tony Blair was elected in 1997 (I helped in the campaign) we had a celebration party having got rid of the Tories. Everyone was totally euphoric and I went the rounds warning that in just a few years they would curse themselves for putting trust in Blair. I warned that he would do very little for working people in Britain and that he would set the tone for the rich to get richer at our expense and in so doing I became a social leper. I was soon proved right and my local party turned against him within one year. I underestimated Blair though, because I did not forsee the bloody and senseless wars he would involve us in.

The local party now threw it's weight behind Brown and again I warned that he would do very little different to Blair and again would favour big business at the expense of workers and didn't he do just that? He baled out the banks and they are still making fat profits whilst their interest are guarranteed by the government - a labour government.

I may not make many friends at this time, but let me warn you all; Obama will do very little for working people and that includes black working people. He has not uttered a single word of concrete policy, so people have voted for him, but have no real idea of what he stands for -except "change" of course.

The nearest any of the pundits have come to finding the slightest nuance of a policy is in regard to Iraq, where it is "thought" that troop numbers will be reduced, so as to increase troop numbers in Afghanistan. Have these people learned nothing?? The Russians died like flies in Afghanistan and so too will Americans. The troops will be fighting with one hand tied behind their backs because war cannot be re-declared, due to the fact that the target cannot now be clearly identified. It is another Vietnam and isn't it funny; Kennedy got his tackle caught in that mess and look what happened to him when he tried to get out.

If Obama does anything to extricate the USA in any meaningful sense from the Middle East and other foreign enterprises, Bin laden is likely to get him. Not because Bin laden is smart, but because Obama's own security will effectively open the door- as they did for Kennedy.

The USA has not demonstrated strength in electing Obama, it has shown just how weak it is to those who have their eyes open. All that has been acheived in these weeks of bated breath for the whole world is for the USA to resolve a domestic issue before the gaze of billions of people. They have finally elected a black president after years of seregation and that is all that is on the table - some acheivement.

The ground swell of hatred of Bush, which is felt world-wide has found expression in the US elections and the vote has become personalised. I have even heard of racially biased people who intended to vote for Obama as a slap in the face for Bush. Such a tremendous tide of feeling is going to evaporate as soon as Obama gets to work dishing out the same-ol' same-ol'. Oh he'll get his honeymoon period alright, but when he is seen to be in bed with the wrong types - the wedding presents will have to be returned. The USA has got itself into such a mess financially, domestically and on foreign policy, that it now requires a black man, relying on his black following, plus a wealth of social sympathy from forward thinking whites, to convince the American masses that life must continue just as before - though perhaps with a few palliative gestures, of which we as yet know nothing.

I heard it said this morning that the change brought about by the simple act of electing Obama the USA's first black president will win the hearts of the world to America's side once more. Do they really believe this tripe? The best way for Americans to win the hearts and minds of the world is to get their feet and their guns out of other people's territory - then we can talk.

Obama's legacy will be physically and mentally mutilated Middle-East-Vets in shop doorways askign passers by; "Got any change buddy?" Unfortunately for them, Obama's policy (what ever it is) is unlikely to enrich the lives of the working people to the extent that will have any change to spare.

Vic Dale

[Bgile]

Vic,

I wrote several paragraphs in response to your post, but dumped most of it as pointless under the circumstances. It must be a terrible burden for you to be so negative about everything and to think that everyone is so cynical and self serving. Your life must have been filled with the dregs of humanity. I am particularly amazed at your claim that you worked for Tony Blair's election and then immediately set about trying to convince everyone he was a scumbag.

[Karl Heidenreich]

I wasn´t pro Obama.... but we must give him the chance. I live in a tiny country that depends 200% in USA. What the USA do, we feel it. One hour after Wall Street was in trouble for all these real state issues, whole big construction projects and developments down here were being paralized: engineers, architects, business people, construction workers, warehouses, truck driver, etc. etc. were affected. I´m talking thousands, guys. Fortunately I wasn´t affected because I got hired for a company that is sending me to Trinidad & Tobago, but a lot others were.
Again, I wasn´t pro Obama, but I have faith that he will do a good job, mainly because, we NEED him to do a fair job. First: no more "megalomaniac" invasions to countries that aren´t a threat. If he needs to act upon something, let it be a REAL threat. Second: the russians are important and, like it or not, very powerfull. Maybe the missile defense system is not as important as to have good relations to Russia. During the Cold War I saw the Russians as bastards that we cannot give our backs to them. Not now: I believe they need more money in their banks. Third: Iran and Osama still are issues (maybe violent action must be taken). Fourth: Economy must be cleaned... too much fiction in LCD screens and in bits... maybe the bet in mega-companies wasn´t too wise after all. Fifth: inmigration, big trouble. Sixth: Venezuela: believe me, that guy is whacko, nuts, mad, hitlerite, just give him the chance.
So, Obama, go ahead, a lot is at stake and there´s faith in a better future. For the time being I support the guy.

Best regards.

[Bgile]

I feel confident that Obama is capable of making intelligent decisions. He is also an inspirational speaker. Finally, he will have a "honeymoon" period with the nations of the world, many of whom have reacted favorably to his election. He lacks experience, but his vice president is very experienced in foreign policy. He has a very tough road ahead, and I wish him well. He doesn't have a lot of maneuvering room due to the horrible financial situation.

[Vic Dale]

Vic,

I wrote several paragraphs in response to your post, but dumped most of it as pointless under the circumstances. It must be a terrible burden for you to be so negative about everything and to think that everyone is so cynical and self serving. Your life must have been filled with the dregs of humanity. I am particularly amazed at your claim that you worked for Tony Blair's election and then immediately set about trying to convince everyone he was a scumbag.

30 years of political activity sharpened my senses as I watched the careerists climb the ladder of selfservice. I can remember people saying exactly the same as you are saying to me when I attacked Blair and the fool Kinnock before him. We don't expect anything from tories or republicans, but people have high expectations when they elect a labour government or when the democrats kick out the republicans, yet time and time again, all we get is the green rub - nothing. It is galling to watch the incompetents in office squander golden opportunities to improve the lot of those who actually produce the wealth in society. In abscence of any clear notion of how to carry society forward they plunge us into a war with no exit strategy.

Let us be clear, the statesman who holds high office has no chance of making his mark on histroy unless he strats a war. Everyone wants to be Churchill.

Despite my years of suffering close to the instruments of power I am not in the least disillusioned with the political process. What I am criticising is the big talk shop - parliamentary democracy. It s not democracy at all. One vote in four or five years does not add up to the will of the people. The people want out of the war and they want economic stability and if they had their way the idiots who even when elected with a striking majority cannot even begin the process, because they do not under tand the economy in the first place.

It is from this lack of grasp that fools like Brown tell us his hand on the economic tiller will get us through. Only a fool would talk like that. He does not have enough levers to do anything about the economy, all he can do is throw money at the problem and hope it will, go away. Sadly, the same will be true of Obama. What strategy can he possibly have to reverse the rot? If he says he can fix it, then he clearly does not know what he is talking about. The best that can be said is he may weather the storm and the only reason he may come through, is because nobody else has any idea what to do about it.

Brown hit the stones when the economy crashed yet oddly the crisis is improving his standing in the polls. That is because those who oppose him have no ideas of their own. So the world economic crisis will have it's way with us all and the depths will be plumbed according to what lies in store and will not be influenced by what the politicians do. The only possible way to ease the situation is to give money to the mass consumer to increase their spending power, then demand for commodities would increase sales and the market would rise. The only problem with this, is you would have to nationalise the banks to do it.

Any goivernment which nationalises the banks is stating that it will take responsibility for the nation's economy. A goverment who does such a thing will immediately become a target for predatory capital who will try to get the edge by racking up prices. Any action against these powerful cartels and trusts could easily provoke a strike of capital. Chavez in Venzuela suffered exactly this kind of attack a few years ago.

There is only one way to deal with a strike of capital and that is further nationalisation. Piecemeal action of this sort will run the risk of ruining the economy, so if that course is to be chasen, is better to get the government's retallaition in forst and antionalise the banks finacial instututions and the top monopolies immediately, through rapid executive action.

Such developments have been forced upon some of the most rightwing governments. Syria went this way in the 1970s. A militrary coup installed a cabal of officers to prevent further incursion of Arab Socialism. Within a short while, the economy was in such ruin that the Generals were forced to nationalise the banks, which they did and because of the concentration of capital due to the crisis, they found that they had nationalised 70% of the whole economy. That part of the economy which remained in private hands began to organise against the generals and their response in turn, was to arm the workers of Syria to defend the economy and the government from attack by armed capital. The revolution had come to Syria by the back door.

I am far from disillusioned with politics and am as confident of an uprising of workers as I ever was. I lost my faith in the world's leaders a long time ago and can watch their buffonery barely able to contain my mirth - all leaders. They dress themselves in high-flown phrases and shout for change, but with the world in the straits it is, they will be stripped as naked as the day they were born in short order. That is the kind of transparency I like. As people begin to see through their lies, they will not simply settle for changing their vote to the other side in the tweedle-dee/tweedle-dum election merry-go-round, they will side step the parliamentary demockery fools and vote with their feet, showing the world what a general strike looks like.

We workers are reasonable people and we are not vengeful, but what is being said is; "sort the mess out. If you can't do it we'll do it ourselves. Time is ticking"

Obama's main purpose - conciously or otherwise - will be to head off the radicalised black and white workers and hope to convince them that having a black president is as good as food on the table and a roof over your head.

BTW I didn't work for Blair, I put my efforts into getting the local candidate elected and on the dorrstep I explained what a scumbag Blair was and how it may be necessary to side step him with industrial action, though at the same time telling them that even Blair was better than the tories. I have operated like this for years and so many poeple have remebered me and singled me out for thanks in enlightening them, even though they may not have accepted what I said at the time. It's all part of a process.

Vic Dale