Coup in Honduras!

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Karl Heidenreich
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Re: Coup in Honduras!

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:45 pm

Beep! Mistake! The coup people are going to respect the November elections as the constitution asks for. As with Franco´s Spain and Pinochet´s Chile the regimes give their place to democracies when their role model is over. Very different to Rusia, China, Vietnam, Cuba and wherever comunist vermin took the power. The sad thing is the Obama rethoric in this problem.

And the United States IS the policeman. It´s a responsability that the Truman administration took upon themselves the moment they allowed the Soviet Union enslave half the Europe the allies sworn to liberate and, thereafter, the Korea debacle.

Remember:
WWI (Democrat party war)
WWII (Democrat party war)
Korea (Democrat party war)
Vietnam (Democrat party war)
Cold War (Democrats started it and Ronald Reagan won it after fighting cowards at the Capitol Hill, then the Sandinistas and then Gorbachov)
Gulf war (Republican party war fought alongside democrat methods: leaving the enemy alive to fight him later, only with more peril)
Somalia, Kosovo, etc. etc. etc. (Democrat party war)
War on Terror and Irak (inconclusive wars fought as McNamara would like it)

Yeah, the US is the world policeman. After Reagan it has been not a so good policeman but it still is. As Rome or the British, you want it, you get it.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill

lwd
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Re: Coup in Honduras!

Post by lwd » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:17 pm

Bgile wrote: ...
Not always, but usually military coups result in an indefinite dictatorship once they are in power. I take it you think the dictatorship that is now in place is a good thing and to be preferred to a leftist democracy.
It's not at all clear however that "military coup" is a good description of what happened. Indeed even "coup" is stretching it. The military acted in accordance with the constitution for the most part. The only area where they stepped outside the constitution was in removing the president from the country rather than putting him in jail.

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Karl Heidenreich
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Re: Coup in Honduras!

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:30 pm

lwd:

I agree with your comment. As far as news has been coming in the decision of removing Zelaya was done by the Congress since the day before and the Court approved. But the "military coup" issue came as the Army arrested and expell Zelaya BEFORE a formal meeting of the Congress took place asking for the removal.

And things are getting hot again: Zelaya has given our Costa Rican president some 48 hours or such to get him re instated or he will "apply other measures". This could mean that he got already an agreement with Chavez to attack Honduras via Nicaragua. That would be catastrophic for the region because will allow the intervention of a madman. And the US has not a clear position here, the only thing Obama has said is that Zelaya is the rightfull president of Honduras. I seems so much alike what happened with Jimmy Carter in 1979 in Central America and the starting of the overall war in the region.

Best regards,
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill

Bgile
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Re: Coup in Honduras!

Post by Bgile » Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:08 pm

lwd wrote:
Bgile wrote: ...
Not always, but usually military coups result in an indefinite dictatorship once they are in power. I take it you think the dictatorship that is now in place is a good thing and to be preferred to a leftist democracy.
It's not at all clear however that "military coup" is a good description of what happened. Indeed even "coup" is stretching it. The military acted in accordance with the constitution for the most part. The only area where they stepped outside the constitution was in removing the president from the country rather than putting him in jail.
The military is allowed to remove a president they don't like or accuse of a crime? There is no due process? It's ok if they act in accordance with the Constitution "for the most part" and just break the law a little bit? In the US there is a process called Impeachment. This doesn't exist in Honduras?

Actually I think it's time for Costa Rica to become the world policeman. I don't want the job anymore. What I want is a health care system which doesn't force people to go to the Emergency Room because they didn't have any other health care and got very sick. We have about the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world because poor women can't afford prenatal heath care. We have good health care here if you are wealthy or have a job that provides it. The employers who provide health care then have to compete with companies overseas who don't have to do that because everyone in their country pays for it in their taxes. But then we are supposed to pay to be the world policeman. I don't think I like that. I quit. Maybe the Germans can do it. Oh I forgot. They don't want their soldiers to get hurt.

lwd
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Re: Coup in Honduras!

Post by lwd » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:41 pm

Bgile wrote:
lwd wrote: It's not at all clear however that "military coup" is a good description of what happened. Indeed even "coup" is stretching it. The military acted in accordance with the constitution for the most part. The only area where they stepped outside the constitution was in removing the president from the country rather than putting him in jail.
The military is allowed to remove a president they don't like or accuse of a crime? There is no due process? It's ok if they act in accordance with the Constitution "for the most part" and just break the law a little bit? In the US there is a process called Impeachment. This doesn't exist in Honduras?
....
My understanding is that per Karl's quote above the Congress ordered his arrest and the Supreme court ok'ed it. The military was apparently suppose to hold it but removed him from the country "to prevent disorder". It was stated that they thought there would be rioting if he remained in the country. They may also have been doing it to make sure their hands were clean as it would have been easy for something to happen to him while in custody. While removing him from the country was not apparently in accord with their constitution it almost assuredly worked to benefit the former president.

Bgile
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Re: Coup in Honduras!

Post by Bgile » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:27 pm

Interesting. Then why post "Coup in Honduras!"?

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Karl Heidenreich
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Re: Coup in Honduras!

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:10 am

Bgile:

First of all I must apologyse to Bgile and all other americans because sometimes I get too agressive and say or write things I regret later. The US has been doing an ugly job since 1945 trying to bring peace and order to a world full of idiots and irresponsible criminals as Kim, Noriega, Hussein, Castro, Khomeini or Chavez. And many times they have done so in the middle of the criticism of their so called friends as those yellow frogs from Paris who could easily be speaking German from four generations now if not for the US and the britons. The US has put money, resources and the lifes of their sons when the europeans were selling sports cars and giving rights to the gays and legalizing drugs. And the US had many great persons and leaders: Washington, Jefferson Davis, Robert E Lee, Teddy Rooseevelt and, above all, Ronald Reagan for whom my country is free.

As in many times before, I have been rude and harsh and ask forgiveness for that.

Having said that, the US is nor perfect and had commited a lot of mistakes. And one is Obama´s claim of the "coup". It´s Obama the one calling the movement as a coup. I do suspect that Zelaya is trying to make negotiations fail this Saturday in order to let Chavez invade Honduras via Nicaragua.

Best regards,

Karl
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill

Bgile
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Re: Coup in Honduras!

Post by Bgile » Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:10 pm

Karl, I know what you say comes from your heart and I understand that. You only want what you think is best.

I obviously feel the same way about my county, but I don't want to continue going way off topic.

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