The Climate Change agenda

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Byron Angel
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby Byron Angel » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:32 pm

As always, follow the money.

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Vic Dale
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby Vic Dale » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:44 am

The big picture on power and climate change if you want to find it, lies in the system under which we live. All of the democratic state institutions serve a single purpose, to protect the property rights of the ruling class which they serve. No president or prime minister will ever be permitted to do anything, or pass any laws which harm the money making machine, so as far as climate change goes we will be lied to. As far as future reserves of fuel are concerned we will be lied to. As to the efficiency of wind farms cycling to work, driving our cars, transport by road or by rail, again we will be lied to. That is what government is all about, lying to it's people. The most successful politicians are the best and biggest liars - see Bush and Blair. For democracy, see;- demockery.

We the people have absolutely no say in what goes on in the world, unless it serves the great economic purpose - see billionaires. In Britain the current government was elected and one of the promises was "No third runway at Heathrow." Now we being told that today Heath Row will choose the site on which to build it.

The population has been lured into building wind farms at enormous expense and heavy tax to provide subsidy for the main turbine builders and at the same time other large firms are building huge diesel generators to meet demand for electric power, when the wind turbines fail to produce. I believe the figure for wind turbine efficiency in producing power is about 8% of it's capacity over a full year. A huge waste of money and resources. We are also being lied to about the safety of this method of generation, some health concerns have been raised for people who live near the wind farms, from high and low frequency vibrations.

We are told that Fracking for Shale Oil is safe, yet in the USA, horror stories are legion, farms and water supplies polluted and tap water which burns. Of course even that pollution has an economic spin-off as the people living near the pollution are forced to buy bottled water. So not everyone loses.

Of course the big money polluters have their own answer for the damage or no damage they may be causing. When it was pointed out in the USA that huge oil producers are polluting the planet, the religious right said, "The second coming of the lord will sort it all out!" The world has gone mad.

Is it any wonder that the masses are being put off politics? The lie machines have been working in over drive for a great many years and the voters have become numbed and desensitised to the mendacity of career politicians in all parties. They even had to find a new word for lying a few years back, because of the emotive impact, so they came up with "dissembling." We are being continually "dissembled" to on a daily basis. Our politicians are a "dissembling" shower of bastards.

The danger comes when a people lose confidence in the democratic process, because of the way it has been abused. They simply take to the streets. We can see this process in Egypt, Turkey and other Mediterranean states. The dictatorships or "sham democracies" in Libya, Syria and elsewhere have been challenged as have those in a number of Near and Middle East countries. In time the same will be true in the advanced industrialised nations. Then we will find out the truth for ourselves, that simple street protests can be handled, it is the political strike which does the damage and topples governments.

At the time of writing I do not know what to believe about climate change, but when the good and the great say anything about it, I know it is likely to be a lie - I mean dissemblement.

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Dave Saxton
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby Dave Saxton » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:46 pm

What is really concerning is that respected journals and scientific literature have colluded to "hide the decline" (of global warming). Recently the journal Nature published graphs on a climate change predictions. They actually changed the data to "hide the decline". It is a complete fraud. But people will look at it and say well Nature says we are facing a real crisis and not realize they are being mislead by a "scientific journal".

A climate change advocate was recently asked about the accuracy of the predictions and the "decline":
SPIEGEL: Just since the turn of the millennium, humanity has emitted another 400 billion metric tons of CO2 into the atmosphere, yet temperatures haven’t risen in nearly 15 years. What can explain this?

Storch: So far, no one has been able to provide a compelling answer to why climate change seems to be taking a break. We’re facing a puzzle. Recent CO2 emissions have actually risen even more steeply than we feared. As a result, according to most climate models, we should have seen temperatures rise by around 0.25 degrees Celsius (0.45 degrees Fahrenheit) over the past 10 years. That hasn’t happened. In fact, the increase over the last 15 years was just 0.06 degrees Celsius (0.11 degrees Fahrenheit) — a value very close to zero. This is a serious scientific problem that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) will have to confront when it presents its next Assessment Report late next year.

SPIEGEL: How long will it still be possible to reconcile such a pause in global warming with established climate forecasts?

Storch: If things continue as they have been, in five years, at the latest, we will need to acknowledge that something is fundamentally wrong with our climate models. A 20-year pause in global warming does not occur in a single modeled scenario. But even today, we are finding it very difficult to reconcile actual temperature trends with our expectations.



We are on cusp of a complete revolution of cheap and plentiful carbon based energy and it will not cause an explosion of climate change. Don't believe the propaganda movies about the evils of frac-ing. It is nothing but propaganda. We need not be beholden to the middle east. Cheap and plentiful energy could cause an explosion of economic growth. It could improve the standard of living of every person on the planet. This is the way forward. Yet the powers that be are digging in their heals and resisting this revolution. Why?
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

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RF
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby RF » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:01 pm

Vic Dale wrote: All of the democratic state institutions serve a single purpose, to protect the property rights of the ruling class which they serve. No president or prime minister will ever be permitted to do anything, or pass any laws which harm the money making machine,

We the people have absolutely no say in what goes on in the world, unless it serves the great economic purpose - see billionaires.


This sounds like the typical marxist/socialist mantra about class rule. Fair enough, but there is also the non-marxist socialist mantra about voting to change society.

Now having read political ideology and philosophy on my degree I am sufficiently enthused to believe that my vote can count, even though in voting in every election of all types for over the last 30 years I have never ever voted for a party with representation in the House of Commons. Actually I'm rather proud of that fact and not at all disillusioned. One day perhaps a majority of the electorate will come round to my way of thinking and then we really can make a difference and change society. But perhaps not in the way that Vic would wish for.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

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RF
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby RF » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:09 pm

Vic Dale wrote:At the time of writing I do not know what to believe about climate change, but when the good and the great say anything about it, I know it is likely to be a lie - I mean dissemblement.


Well, taking a scientific perspective and taking out the politics I don't think anyone can make an objective view about whether the Earth's climate is changing. We simply do not have enough reliable value free information.

I remember when I did geography for my A levels many years ago - the teacher said that the Earth was in a state of constant micro-climatic change, as evidenced in the changing daily weather we have in the UK. Elsewhere it is of course more constant, such as in a desert where it never rains.

But what about macro-climatic change? That is the unknown, we don't know whether it is happening and we can only recognise it retrospectively.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

Vic Dale
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby Vic Dale » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:11 pm

It is impossible to vote for change if the people you get to vote for are preselected by undemocratic procedures. No one outside of the big parties gets a look in. It is big money which gets the votes and once they are counted they serve the big money.

Once upon an time we had a completely corrupt voting system and now......

It doesn't take a Marxist to work out that if democracy is abused often enough, the masses will find an alternative.

The striking and consistent fact of all of the current uprisings is the total lack of a Marxist leadership. They are popular and completely undirected.

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Dave Saxton
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby Dave Saxton » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:35 pm

One of the interesting debates going right now is the validity of the climate prediction computor models or GCMs that the alarmist show to correlate mankind emitted green house gases and climate change. When tested for their accuracy by hind casting they fail. And not by a little, but by a lot. Not to mention their failure to to deal with the now proven fact of a decline in global warming during recent years.

However, there is one mathamatical model put forward by a British steam systems engineer in the 1930s which works when put the test. It's a simple log equation that predicts for a doubling of PPM co2 in the entire atmosphere (impossible in practical terms) the amount of warming is well less than 2*C. And since it's log further massive increases in PPM of CO2 will cause insignificant warming. In other words the warming will level out and stablize with in +/- 1.7*C no matter what we humans do about green house gas emissions.

Of course this isn't at all useful for pushing the agendas of the United Nations, Al Gore (who stands to make billions), Obama, and other assorted communists.
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

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Dave Saxton
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby Dave Saxton » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:47 pm

Herr Willis Eschenbach has some interesting commentary on the issue of the inaccuracy of the the GCMs. He is responding to the first qouted passage for context:


"I think people are far to quick to dismiss the value of GCMs. For some questions they are the only tool at hand. And further, to be fair, If I came at you with a simple model and suggested that we should tax carbon based on a zero dimensional model, I’ll wager that you might ask ' whats that model say about sea level rise?'
In short, we damn the GCMs for trying to do more and yet would not act on a simple model that said less al beit more accurately."

Callandar’ work is fascinating in part because of its simplicity. As I mentioned above, the fact that the GCMs can give us predictions or projections about other things does not imply that they meaningful or useful. Let me repeat my abuse of Shakespeare from above:

TELFORD (Alarmist).

"I can call regional projections from the vasty GCMs."
MCINTYRE (Skeptic).

"Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come true when you do call for them?"

You are claiming that an inaccurate prediction is better than no prediction at all. I think that in fact, an inaccurate prediction is worse than none. The problem with predictions is that they come as a package with imputed causes. If we accept the prediction, we accept the cause.

For example, someone could come in with a model that shows a correlation between sea level rise and the barycentric rotation of the sun. If we accept his prediction about sea levels, we can forget about preventing sea level rise. We won’t change the barycentric motion. But if the same prediction comes from a GCM, it comes with an implicit cause which is the simplistic idea that global temperatures linearly follow forcings. In that case we are accepting that the cause is greenhouse gases.

As a result, accepting the results of a model includes accepting the world view of the model as being correct … and we have little reason to think that of the GCMs. For the canonical measure of a GCM, the hindcast of the historical temperatures, I and others have shown that they are functionally equivalent to a simple lagged function of the inputs … and I see no reason to assume that their model of sea level rise is any more sophisticated.

So to the contrary, I think that people are far too slow to dismiss the value of GCMs. People seem hypnotized by their size and complexity, and overawed by the pretty pictures they can generate. .......

w.
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

Byron Angel
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby Byron Angel » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:15 am

A wonderful example of the devastating clarity that can be produced when cold hard logic is brought to bear.

Thanks for posting it, Dave.

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RF
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby RF » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:41 am

Another report on ''global warming'' is being produced in which it is alleged that temperature rises of between 3 and 4 degrees centigrade above pre-industrial levels by the year 2100 are predicted on a ''could happen' basis - an intepretation they present as will happen.

The evidence to support this appears to be based on computer models with ''balance of probability'' methodlogy on temperature evidence going up to 2010. It doesn't look as if any data after that is being considered.

The former World Bank chief economist and author of the 2007 Stern Review, Lord Stern says that it would be ''absurd'' to discount the economic effects of the predicted temperature increase.

Having read environmental economics as part of my degree the methodology used then would expose the line of reasoning used here as shallow.

I think that over the next 80 years it is quite likely that Mankind will develop the technology to overcome and deal with such changes if they were to happen. Indeed they may even be turned to advantage.
I suspect it won't happen, at least on an anthropegenic basis.
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Dave Saxton
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby Dave Saxton » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:27 pm

What the alarmists are concerned with at this time is losing the momentum in terms of public opinion, if non-doctored data is released to the public or if the IPCC waffles a bit on its AGW predictions. Recently der Speigel rang alarm bells for the alarmists about the German and Dutch governments not buying the white washed explanations about the lack of actual global warming during the last 15 years.

der Speigel found this commentary by a Gov minister "troubling":

Troublingly, Marotzke felt it necessary to add that “climate researchers have an obligation not to environmental policy but to the truth”.


So there we have it. Its about about driving a socialist policy agenda, not science.

This following reporting on some German ministers expressing concerns to not back off on the AGW alarmist stance at the UN:

German ministries insist that it is important not to detract from the effectiveness of climate change warnings by discussing the past 15 years’ lack of global warming. Doing so, they say, would result in a loss of the support necessary for pursuing rigorous climate policies.


The whole rotten AGW edifice is on the verge of crumbling if only it wasn't for media holding it up, as a vital driver of the left's political agenda. Socialist political policy and climate policy are one in the same.
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

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Dave Saxton
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby Dave Saxton » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:45 pm

Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

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Dave Saxton
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby Dave Saxton » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:12 pm

Yet another expose' of the AGW hoax.

http://www.thegwpf.org/content/uploads/ ... dstill.pdf

You don't need to read the whole thing, the summary and Lord Turnbill's forward are right to the point.
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

Byron Angel
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby Byron Angel » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:22 am

Dave Saxton wrote: Socialist political policy and climate policy are one in the same.



..... Part of the Left's fundamental strategy to seize power is to maintain a constant sense of instability, crisis and uncertainty in the minds of the public in order to discredit and undermine existing governmental, social and moral institutions. AGW is just one of their many concocted "crises".

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paul.mercer
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby paul.mercer » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:54 pm

Gentlemen,
Re climate change, so many opinions- even the 'Experts' cannot agree, one says the earth is warming, others the earth is cooling so us poor mortals have no idea what is happening.
I'm going to quote Clint Eastwood in one of his 'Dirty Harry' films when he said "Opinions are like a....soles, everybody has one"!


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