The Climate Change agenda

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OpanaPointer
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby OpanaPointer » Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:21 pm

Steve Crandell wrote:It really doesn't matter whether the "Climate Change agenda" is real or not. The amount of the real wealth in the world is increasingly being concentrated in the hands of a smaller and smaller percentage of the population. Discussions like this are irrelevant, because those people are largely going to do what makes them more wealthy, and they increasingly control the opinion of everyone else by controlling the media.

Then I must ask why you bother posting?

Steve Crandell
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby Steve Crandell » Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:24 pm

OpanaPointer wrote:
Steve Crandell wrote:It really doesn't matter whether the "Climate Change agenda" is real or not. The amount of the real wealth in the world is increasingly being concentrated in the hands of a smaller and smaller percentage of the population. Discussions like this are irrelevant, because those people are largely going to do what makes them more wealthy, and they increasingly control the opinion of everyone else by controlling the media.

Then I must ask why you bother posting?


Frustration. The train wreck is going to happen and there isn't anything I can do about it. This thread has gone on for a long time without any input from me, and it will probably go on for a lot longer without any more input from me.

OpanaPointer
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby OpanaPointer » Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:03 pm

Fair enough.

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RF
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby RF » Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:30 pm

Steve Crandell wrote:Ignoring climate change ... are you actually suggesting that the horrible pollution in some cities is desirable and that nothing needs to be done about it because it would hurt our economy? And that anyone who wants to clean that up is a bad person?
Do you also believe in Divine Creation, and that the world is only a few thousand years old?


What exactly is the point of a posting such as this?

''ignoring climate change'' - what is that cliché supposed to mean?
The Earth's atmosphere is constantly subject to microclimatic change, it is part of a natural process and has been since the Earth developed an atmosphere. Cataclysmic events such as asteroid strikes, supervolanic eruptions and changes in the Earth's orbit have resulted in macroclimatic change which worked into a new equilibrium with the passage of time.

What is at issue is that of anthropogenic global warming, the allegation that man-made emissions of carbon dioxide is causing global temperatures to rise. This has now been shown to be based on biased computer models which do not accurately predict future climate.

''suggesting that horrible pollution in some cities is desirable'' - nobody has ever suggested that, and it is deliberately misleading to raise this as an issue. It is a diversion and a distraction from the anthropogenic global warming falsification.
I don't support pollution, I want it reduced as much as possible. Here in Britain we have some of the tightest pollution and air quality controls in the world, which I fully support.

''Do you also believe in Divine Creation...'' This is an imbecile standard of debate.
Some people do believe in the literal Biblical interpretation of life, just as some people believe the Earth is flat, or that the Moon landings were faked.
Personally I have no religious beliefs and can assure you that the Earth is nearly five thousand million years old, is an oblate spheroid which orbits the Sun and that the Universe is based on the laws of physics and chemistry.
It is genuine scientific enquiry that debunks the anthropogenic global warming scam.

If you have scientific evidence to support anthropogenic global warming then present it.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

OpanaPointer
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby OpanaPointer » Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:59 pm

RF wrote:What is at issue is that of anthropogenic global warming, the allegation that man-made emissions of carbon dioxide is causing global temperatures to rise. This has now been shown to be based on biased computer models which do not accurately predict future climate.

Yep. Sure.

Byron Angel
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby Byron Angel » Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:03 pm

OpanaPointer wrote:Yep. Sure.


I'd be utterly fascinated to learn exactly what has convinced you of the correctness of the claims of the school of anthropogenic climate change. I am referring to the "settled science" of the old school of anthropogenic global warming, which has now become the new school of anthropogenic "climate change" when the failure of the global climate to cooperate with their melodramatic projections forced a shift in its marketing strategy. I am also old enough to recall the fervently publicized campaign by the same sorts of "scientists" in the 70's who trumpeted that the world was facing a looming new Ice Age. This sort of foolishness is nothing new. Instead of relying upon all those emotional, apocalyptic press releases that are churned out daily by the climate change campaign, try making an objective appraisal of the criticisms of the data manipulation shenanigans of the climate apocalypse crowd, its serial failures to develop any sort of successful climate modeling methodology, its persistence in ignoring the influence of the solar cycle on the climate of Earth. Take a close look at where the funding for all the climate change research grants comes from. Then examine how all the proposed "solutions" to this manufactured "crisis" inevitably originate within government and bureaucratic institutions and involve more and more layers of control and taxation placed upon the general citizenry.

Or ..... you can continue to buy what the nice young smiling blonde lady in the tight dress recites to you every night on the evening news.

B

OpanaPointer
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby OpanaPointer » Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:46 pm

Well, I spent 14 years at Purdue, and I met a lot of people working on this problem. I'm a historian by trade, I work for the Navy Department, but I got interested in AGW while working as a research assistant for a professor with few computer skills. I sat in on meetings that would inform me of the important points of the prof's work so I could do a better job looking for materials. I learned a lot, and I'm confident in the work they were doing.

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Dave Saxton
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby Dave Saxton » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:02 pm

OpanaPointer wrote:Well, I spent 14 years at Purdue, and I met a lot of people working on this problem. I'm a historian by trade, I work for the Navy Department, but I got interested in AGW while working as a research assistant for a professor with few computer skills. I sat in on meetings that would inform me of the important points of the prof's work so I could do a better job looking for materials. I learned a lot, and I'm confident in the work they were doing.

I also spent years in acadamia and was associated with indviduals involved in those fields of work, and was tutored by a phd with direct access to the data. I came away with a different understanding. Climate gate, hide the decline, and the "pause", only further confirm it.
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

OpanaPointer
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby OpanaPointer » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:07 pm

Dave Saxton wrote:
OpanaPointer wrote:Well, I spent 14 years at Purdue, and I met a lot of people working on this problem. I'm a historian by trade, I work for the Navy Department, but I got interested in AGW while working as a research assistant for a professor with few computer skills. I sat in on meetings that would inform me of the important points of the prof's work so I could do a better job looking for materials. I learned a lot, and I'm confident in the work they were doing.

I also spent years in acadamia and was associated with indviduals involved in those fields of work, and was tutored by a phd with direct access to the data. I came away with a different understanding. Climate gate, hide the decline, and the "pause", only further confirm it.

It's cold here today. Next Saturday it will be in the '80s.

Byron Angel
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby Byron Angel » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:08 pm

OpanaPointer wrote:Well, I spent 14 years at Purdue, and I met a lot of people working on this problem. I'm a historian by trade, I work for the Navy Department, but I got interested in AGW while working as a research assistant for a professor with few computer skills. I sat in on meetings that would inform me of the important points of the prof's work so I could do a better job looking for materials. I learned a lot, and I'm confident in the work they were doing.



..... Have you read the methodological critiques of the opposition academic community? Did you spend any time researching through the great Climategate email dump? What was your reaction when the founder emeritus of the Sierra Club announced his repudiation of the concept of AGW/ACC? Of course, such material is practically never aired or mentioned in the national media, just as the numerous academics who author them are likewise ignored or character-assassinated. AGW is proclaimed to be "settled science" because there is no "debate" within the scientific/academic community; there is no debate because one side is arbitrarily erased from the discussion. These facts are telling hints that "the fix" is in.

Just to make my position clear, I do not argue that mankind is a zero net influence upon climate. What I do argue is that no one has yet produced any compelling evidence whatsoever to support the claim that mankind exercises any sort of dominant or persistent influence upon global climate. We get an amazingly inventive variety of theories, inferences, and assumed potential correlations .... up to and including the incidence of flatulence among the domesticated world bovine population ... all drawing from a carefully circumscribed body of cherry-picked or otherwise "adjusted" anthropogenic data that studiously avoids the surrounding herd of 15,000 lb natural causation elephants.

Follow the money .....

B

OpanaPointer
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby OpanaPointer » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:45 pm

I'll just follow the data, thank you.

Steve Crandell
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby Steve Crandell » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:09 pm

Byron Angel wrote:Follow the money .....
B


The money leads to the Koch brothers and their ilk ... the rest of the rapidly developing Oligarchy. Everything is being subsumed by the profit motive. Unions are dying, and I believe we are headed for an era that will make the Robber Barons look like philanthropists. Corporations are now able to devote so much money to shaping people's opinion that our democracy is becoming a joke. For them, it is simply an investment, and a good one.

From my point of view, I'm 67 and did a reasonable job of saving and investing for old age, although I lost a lot of it to the Wall Street fiasco. Now, if I or my wife get sick ... and one of us probably will, eventually ... we will lose everything and end up in a little room somewhere. It would be really nice if people in this country didn't have to worry about health issues leaving them destitute. It isn't like that everywhere.

I'm sorry for going off topic, but I couldn't help myself ... getting pretty discouraged these days. I will try to stay silent again and let you guys go on about "The Climate Change Agenda".

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Dave Saxton
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby Dave Saxton » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:41 pm

OpanaPointer wrote:It's cold here today. Next Saturday it will be in the '80s.

???
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

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Dave Saxton
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby Dave Saxton » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:41 pm

OpanaPointer wrote:I'll just follow the data, thank you.

All the data?
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

OpanaPointer
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Re: The Climate Change agenda

Postby OpanaPointer » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:51 pm

Dave Saxton wrote:
OpanaPointer wrote:I'll just follow the data, thank you.

All the data?

No, just the stuff you don't like. :D


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