No return to the Moon

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Karl Heidenreich
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No return to the Moon

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:38 am

Well,

Progress and space exploration are halted by Mr. Obama as he is speeding to have gays openly in the military:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35131431/ns ... ence-space

A shame that a proud country is on it´s way to become one socialist mediocre land...
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill

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RF
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Re: No return to the Moon

Post by RF » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:32 am

Well, if there is no return to the Moon, then there's no trip to land people on Mars.

Not from the US that is. Looks like we will have to wait until the likes of China or even india catch up. Now theres a spur for the Americans - put a man (or woman) on Mars before the Chinese do and claim the planet as a communist paradise.
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minoru genda
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Re: No return to the Moon

Post by minoru genda » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:32 pm

Karl Heidenreich wrote:Well,

Progress and space exploration are halted by Mr. Obama as he is speeding to have gays openly in the military:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35131431/ns ... ence-space

A shame that a proud country is on it´s way to become one socialist mediocre land...
Post like this are typical from a troll.
That Obama diverts finantial support from the Space program to try improve the health care system and other social benefits in the middle of a global economic crisis caused in part by the previous Bush administration would not make the USA a socialist mediocre land or a less proud country.
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RF
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Re: No return to the Moon

Post by RF » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:11 pm

minoru,

The space program does have a practical value, not least as a provider of jobs and a conduit for investment as well as a driver for new technology.

Expenditure on healthcare by the state is more of what economists call ''transfer payment'' and may not enhance GNP as much as expenditure that drives private endeavour. It is also subject to diminishing returns.

Calling somebody a troll or whatever is abuse not an argument. If Karl behaved improperly then Jose as administrator would deal with it.

And as this is the off topic section then it is I believe appropriate to raise political issues, whether good, bad or ugly.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

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Re: No return to the Moon

Post by Bgile » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:43 pm

RF wrote: Expenditure on healthcare by the state is more of what economists call ''transfer payment'' and may not enhance GNP as much as expenditure that drives private endeavour.
Comments like this are usually made by people who can actually get health care when they get sick.

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Karl Heidenreich
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Re: No return to the Moon

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:24 am

Gentlemen,

Humankind continuous search and travels for knowledge and improvement is what had given us all a chance to survive. It was the scientific reseach that has given us electrical light and medicines (as penicilin), modern transportation and industry. When Marco Polo went to the East he was broadening the knowledge of the people in old Europe and when Christopher Columbus reached La Española a new world was opened, for all the good and reciprocal evil that brought.

People as Einstein, Cousteau, von Braun or Thor Heyerdalh did understand that. The next step is space, where maybe the survival of our species lies. Neglecting to continue the path of the those generations of mid XX Century is not wise. The actual crisis, instead of being an obstacle is the evidence of the urgency to reach new goals. Closing the exploration projects is far from inteligent (which by no means refers to some "wisdom" of the previous administration).

So, the Obama administration space policy, after all justifications can be sumarized in the words of Chief Judge Alito: "not true".

Warmest regards,

Eliah Wallach
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill

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Re: No return to the Moon

Post by Kyler » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:26 am

The Ares program, and the Moon/Mars project never received the necessary funding from Bush to be competent programs. They were started as a PR blitz against China putting their first man in space and their proposal in putting a man on the moon. While sad that NASA has seen its funding cut dramatically in the last two decades, it is not Obama's fault for killing a program that had hope of completing its task in a timely and effective manner anyways. I her your complaints but most Americans can see spending billions on dollars on a program currently when spending is out of control. I believe when things turn around in a few years a new international initiative will begin to renew an effort to go to Mars.
"It was a perfect attack, Right Height, Right Range, Right cloud cover, Right speed,
Wrong f@%king ship!" Commander Stewart-Moore (HMS Ark Royal)

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Re: No return to the Moon

Post by hammy » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:59 pm

He still hasnt justified his disparaging remark about Gays . I live in a country where homosexuality is a generally tolerated thing that is recognised as generally arising (!) out of a genetic predisposition rather than some learned deviancy .

Besides , when the sweaty fumbling stops you can talk intelligently together about Football ! :D
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RF
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Re: No return to the Moon

Post by RF » Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:50 am

Bgile wrote:
RF wrote: Expenditure on healthcare by the state is more of what economists call ''transfer payment'' and may not enhance GNP as much as expenditure that drives private endeavour.
Comments like this are usually made by people who can actually get health care when they get sick.
I do indeed get healthcare when I am sick - I can see my doctor, have hospital consultations, go into hospital for surgery and post operation care, all without any bill being presented to me. That is because my healthcare is paid for out of the taxes that I and the other millions of working Brits pay. We have a National Health Service which caters for all of this, so that anybody regardless of economic status gets free healthcare.

I am aware that there is no state run free healthcare system in the US, and that President Obama seeks to introduce one. That is a matter for the Americans, although I would add that the opposition of the Republican Party to it I believe is wrong.

The statement you quoted Bgile was not prescriptive in saying that state healthcare expenditure shouldn't happen but was descriptive of its effect, which unfortunately includes bureacracy generation that needs to be controlled.
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RF
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Re: No return to the Moon

Post by RF » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:00 am

Kyler wrote:The Ares program, and the Moon/Mars project never received the necessary funding from Bush to be competent programs.
..... I her your complaints but most Americans can see spending billions on dollars on a program currently when spending is out of control. I believe when things turn around in a few years a new international initiative will begin to renew an effort to go to Mars.
Space exploration should not be seen as a luxury item, but as much a necessity as it is for ships to carry lifeboats. Karl is right in saying that our survival may one day depend on it.

Spending out of control....it isn't as expensive as baling out the banks is it? And that was a self inflicted injury, caused by inadequate financial control and negligence by the people running those banks.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

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Re: No return to the Moon

Post by Bgile » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:11 pm

RF wrote: Space exploration should not be seen as a luxury item, but as much a necessity as it is for ships to carry lifeboats. Karl is right in saying that our survival may one day depend on it.

Spending out of control....it isn't as expensive as baling out the banks is it? And that was a self inflicted injury, caused by inadequate financial control and negligence by the people running those banks.
I don't disagree with this at all. Unfortunately re regulating the banks is proving difficult because their lobbies are so powerful.

In the meantime, Obama hasn't cancelled the space program, but he is face with limited funds and the pressing need for millions of our people to get health care. He has chosen to move the available money to the space station and other ongoing projects, and to try to fund some of it privately. President Bush told everyone we were going back to the moon, but didn't appropriate enough money to actually do that. Our overseas wars were too expensive. Now President Obama is faced with hard choices. This is a cycle we go through like clockwork.

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Re: No return to the Moon

Post by Kyler » Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:56 pm

Bgile wrote:
RF wrote: Space exploration should not be seen as a luxury item, but as much a necessity as it is for ships to carry lifeboats. Karl is right in saying that our survival may one day depend on it.

Spending out of control....it isn't as expensive as baling out the banks is it? And that was a self inflicted injury, caused by inadequate financial control and negligence by the people running those banks.
I don't disagree with this at all. Unfortunately re regulating the banks is proving difficult because their lobbies are so powerful.

In the meantime, Obama hasn't cancelled the space program, but he is face with limited funds and the pressing need for millions of our people to get health care. He has chosen to move the available money to the space station and other ongoing projects, and to try to fund some of it privately. President Bush told everyone we were going back to the moon, but didn't appropriate enough money to actually do that. Our overseas wars were too expensive. Now President Obama is faced with hard choices. This is a cycle we go through like clockwork.

Couldn't have said it better myself :clap:
"It was a perfect attack, Right Height, Right Range, Right cloud cover, Right speed,
Wrong f@%king ship!" Commander Stewart-Moore (HMS Ark Royal)

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Re: No return to the Moon

Post by Gerard Heimann » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:32 pm

Minoru, I generally find your comments to be thoughtful and interesting, especially considering that your cultural background provides me with an alternative perspective. Your post here expressed a valid opinion, but your first sentence does you no credit.

Regards,
Gerard

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Re: No return to the Moon

Post by minoru genda » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:28 pm

Gerard Heimann wrote:Minoru, I generally find your comments to be thoughtful and interesting, especially considering that your cultural background provides me with an alternative perspective. Your post here expressed a valid opinion, but your first sentence does you no credit.
I know Karl is not a troll, but the tone he used and when you position yourself like that creates flame in a forum.

About human exploration, it is needed not doubt. It is part of the human curiosity to know more. However, there may be other priorities at times. If Obama has chosen different it is for a reason. No doubt he has access to more information that any of us. I just don't think Obama has taken that path because he is a "socialist", whatever that really means. In fact Obama would be considered a center-right politician in any European country.

Gearard, What do you mean by my cultural background?
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Re: No return to the Moon

Post by Bgile » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:44 pm

minoru genda wrote:Gearard, What do you mean by my cultural background?
You haven't posted your location in your profile and your name and flag would imply you are Japanese.

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