Affordable care act? Really?

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Dave Saxton
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Affordable care act? Really?

Postby Dave Saxton » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:42 pm

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-che ... 000-family

Companies arn't going to pay for employee's health care at these rates ($20k a year per family). They will change their employees to part time status so they don't have to pay or they will lay people off. Either way you will get stuck for paying this your self. Companies will drop health covarge for the few employees they keep and pay the fine. For a single individual forced to go through an exchange (which doesn't exist in most places yet) it will cost that person about $700 per month out of pocket to purchase health care. It's the law that you must purchase approved health insurance or you will be fined on your taxes.

This will have a devastating impact on the US economy. It will force many small bussiness (which employ most of the workers in the US) out of bussiness. Counties, cities, and school districts, not already bankrupt will be bankrupted. All those school teachers, cops , public works workers will loose their coverage if they don't loose their jobs. This is a disaster. It may cause another great depression if not out right collapse of the republic with all the domino effects world wide. But it is what the people that voted for this lying son of a **** asked for whether they realized it not.

Add to this a sky rocketing cost of everything and the reduction of actual purchasing power by 40% since Jan 2009 to today, with all the huge costs passed on to the private person to fight that big fraud "Climate Change"- and its just unsustainable. What a mess!

This enemy from within might be the biggest challenge the USA has ever faced.
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

Byron Angel
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Re: Affordable care act? Really?

Postby Byron Angel » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:40 am

Couldn't agree more. This will change the face of healthcare in this nation ..... very much for the worse. Our healthcare is now "entrusted" to a single sole entity with the power to dictate (a) what degree of care a citizen will be "entitled" to; (b) how much the citizen must pay for it; (c) how much the caregivers will be paid to deliver that "care". All this is justified upon the assumption that our government always has the best interests of its citizens foremost in its mind. What has really been accomplished is the surrender to the federal government of unrestricted control over what will soon be one in every three or four dollars spent in this country. I predict that in a very short time this money will be folded into the great and grand "federal budget", whereby it will be re-directed upon whatever various harebrained schemes and dreams our self-anointed career politicians see fit. Our healthcare will become another federal ponzi scheme, with the money progressively siphoned off while we are reduced to glorified hospice care administered by people who care little or nothing about our well being or survival.

If you are in your 60's (as am I) take very good care of your health. You are going to need it.

So many people are so damnably, tragically STUPID.

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Last edited by Byron Angel on Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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frontkampfer
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Re: Affordable care act? Really?

Postby frontkampfer » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:15 am

Dave, Byron,

Your preaching to the choir as far as I'm concerned! I saw this crap happening over four years ago and this is what happens when the 'takers' in society vote. Elections have consequences and when the Supreme Court backs him up we're all screwed!. I am afraid that the only way people will wake up is for the train to go off the tracks. But the propaganda press will blame republicans and hillary will arrive to save the day.

My parents grew up in the depression, fought WWII and the Cold War and while I miss them dearly, I am glad they are not alive to see this! Oh Lord, save my country!
"I will not have my ship shot out from under my ass!"

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Re: Affordable care act? Really?

Postby RF » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:38 am

And all because the Republicans couldn't vote for the right presidential candidate in the primaries.......
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Re: Affordable care act? Really?

Postby Byron Angel » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:30 pm

RF wrote:And all because the Republicans couldn't vote for the right presidential candidate in the primaries.......



..... or because the mechanics of the US election process have become entirely corrupted.

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ede144
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Re: Affordable care act? Really?

Postby ede144 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:40 pm

Guys
As a German I wonder about the panic in your words. We have such a system for more than 100 years. Actually it was invented by a politician, compared to him today's Republicans are soft lefties :-)

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Re: Affordable care act? Really?

Postby Dave Saxton » Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:04 pm

Its really not an apples to apples comparison between some European systems and this diabolical system being forced upon us by Obama. The costs are not proportional I believe. The average income per family in the US is about $50K (down 4k from when Obama took office) but the lowest cost approved plan will be $20K. 40% of a family's income before taxes is outragous. It will be a minimum of $8400 for single indviduals. This may eat up most of their income for just one thing.

The opprotunity costs is enourmous with ripple effects through out the entire world economy. People won't be able to buy, or invest in anything. They won't be signing up to buy a new house or a new car. Companies will either throw their employees over board, or seek to pass on their costs to stay in bussiness, driving up the costs of everything even more. Companies won't be reinvesting their profits because of these new externalities, killing innovation and economic growth.


George Will has an interesting take on John Robert's swing vote that made the individual mandate legal. Essentially the Court ruled that a fine for not buying health insurance is unconstitutional, but if it is redefined as a tax then it is constitutional if each tax is approved by Congress and signed into law. Will thinks this will make the ACA unworkable, because the current "tax" is much cheaper than buying approved insurance (therefore causing many to loose the coverage they now have). Increasing the "tax" through the appropriate methods is politically impossible. The system can not work this way. However, this may have been Obama's plan all along; forcing a further revision to a single payer system.

I know somebody in France that purchases additional supplimental health insurance at about $7000 per year after she's already been heavilly taxed for paying into the Gov single payer system. Even with the additional coverage the quality of the health care is inferior to current US health care in my opinion.

Last year I blew my knee out and it had to be re-constructed. I went to the best orthopedic I know about. I paid out of pocket or out of my "rainy day" fund. The costs for the best possible care was less than the costs of paying the insurance premiums for one year under Obama Care. The doctor makes more this way too.

I would be far better off to purchase just coverage for catastrophic events, for a small fraction of Obama Care cost, and conitinue to build up a rainy day fund. But if I must pay a tax or purchase outragously expensive Gov approved insurance I won't be able to do this anymore. This thing is really a way to get people who don't need expensive health insurance to pay into the gold plated pool, or pay more into the tax stream. There is an opprotunity cost for this forced re-allocation of funds. It's not pro- individual, but pro- corporate. And it is anti-freedom placing the individual subordinant to the collective. Obama is a sell out.
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

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Re: Affordable care act? Really?

Postby Byron Angel » Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:26 pm

ede144 wrote:Guys
As a German I wonder about the panic in your words. We have such a system for more than 100 years. Actually it was invented by a politician, compared to him today's Republicans are soft lefties :-)



..... I am manifestly skeptical that this "health care program" is really focused upon health care at all. And therein lies the difference.

B

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Dave Saxton
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Re: Affordable care act? Really?

Postby Dave Saxton » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:48 pm

Well after a month and a half it is clear that it is not about health care at all, at least not affordable health care. Americans are not buying it. They never did buy it or else Dick Nixon..er..Lying Bill Clinton... aka Obama wouldn't of had to lie through his teeth over and over again while on the campaign trail. Young Americans are not buying because they can not afford it. At least they will not incur the opprotunity cost of buying. I was told by a 26 year old that he's not going to dump hundreds and hundreds of dollors a month into premiums for insurance he doesn't need or want instead of new car or house payments. What does this tell about the ACA's potential impact on a weak economy?

Costs have gone up so much that it is now out of reach for those who qualify for subsidies. And then there's the deductibles of thousands of dollors which means its un-usuable for all but catastrophic needs. For 95% of needs people will have to pay out of pocket any way. But they won't have any money in their pockets because its gone to the insurance companies. Gone forever. It's useless! It's a fraud! It's just another way to extort money from people who can least afford it!

But the good news is nobody is buying it. Its like prohibition, people don't care if it the law of the land or not. They are voting with their check books. Only 106k have signed their freedom away so far and of those only 57k have actually paid money. In California they are sending people door to door to sign people up and the people are saying no. Hopefully this thing will soon go into its death spriral, but not before it costs the dems the next two elections.
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

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Re: Affordable care act? Really?

Postby tommy303 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:38 pm

ede144 wrote:Guys
As a German I wonder about the panic in your words. We have such a system for more than 100 years. Actually it was invented by a politician, compared to him today's Republicans are soft lefties :-)



If I am not mistaken, it was, coincidentally enough, Otto von Bismarck who introduced it to Germany in 1883.

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They stood and Earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned these defended;
And saved the sum of things for pay.

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Re: Affordable care act? Really?

Postby Byron Angel » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:31 am

One cannot assume that one healthcare program is equal to another, simply because they are both healthcare programs. It is rapidly becoming apparent that the "Affordable Care" Act is nothing of the sort. My personal opinion is that it is a 1700 page (and morphing daily) Trojan Horse.

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Re: Affordable care act? Really?

Postby frontkampfer » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:27 am

The whole objective of obama and the dems is to destroy the medical insurance companies so that "the only solution is for the government to step in" as the single payer which is what their goal was from the start. This may sound cruel, but I hope the insurance of all those who voted for this fraud goes through the roof. How's that hope and change working for ya now?
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Re: Affordable care act? Really?

Postby Byron Angel » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:18 pm

frontkampfer wrote:The whole objective of obama and the dems is to destroy the medical insurance companies so that "the only solution is for the government to step in" as the single payer which is what their goal was from the start. This may sound cruel, but I hope the insurance of all those who voted for this fraud goes through the roof. How's that hope and change working for ya now?



..... Members of the US Socialist party ("it's not your father's Democratic party anymore") have openly stated that the ACA is only a stepping stone to a "single payer system" - i.e. nationalized health care. Our vigilant media has, however, omitted to cover such remarks.

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Dave Saxton
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Re: Affordable care act? Really?

Postby Dave Saxton » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:01 pm

Well at least von Bismarck was able to institute a program without the need of a $600,000,000 website that doesn't work or the internet. The German system is multi-payer. However, there are some major differences. For one the German system actually provides health insurance for people that would normally not be able to afford it. Under Obama Care the same people who could not afford health insurance before still can not afford it. Only they get fined for not be able to afford it now. How fair is that? The German system, if my sources are right, protect the consumer from being gouged by synching the premiums to a percentage of income. Prior to the 80's they had no co-pays/deductibles but they had to bring those factors in to keep people from over using the system. There are controls on co-pay amounts to keep from bankrupting poor people with out of pocket costs. The Germans also seem to understand that employers really just pass on health care costs to their employees by paying them less than could otherwise or reducing their hours if on hourly wages, so they try not to place too much burden on employers. You can also opt out of the German system and buy private if you make more than a minumum income.

Ironically Obama care seems to coerce people into doing what insurers wish they could do themselves-paying outragous prices for coverage they don't need or want to expand the money take in. It seems like Obama has more in common once again with Mussolini than von Bismarck. But this thing is so screwed up that one must consider that it was planned this way to bring on single payer. We don't want single payer.
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

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Re: Affordable care act? Really?

Postby Byron Angel » Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:14 pm

..... When I commented upon the suspected "Trojan Horse" nature of the ACA, the ultimate goal of a single payer system was very much on my mind. My suspicionis that ACA was a deal made between the White House and the major private healthcare insurers, whereby the individual insurance mandate of the ACA basically monopolizes health insurance, forces citizen participation across the board, increases overall premium revenue, and will reduce the costs of delivering healthcare by squeezing the medical services community. In the short term, the private healthcare insurers will make out handsomely ..... at least until the Socialists play their next strategic card. With full control over the national healthcare industry now resting in the hands of a new and massive federal government executive agency, insulated from and unanswerable to the public, it will be a relatively easy task to bureaucratically regulate the private insurance industry right out of the healthcare picture simply by changing the rules so as to make it impossible for them to make any money. That will of course leave the feds in sole possession of the entire healthcare playing field, including control over what is estimated to soon become one out of every three dollars spent in this nation. Voila - single payer system via 'sub rosa' political machination.

Wait and see.

B


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