CO2 influence on climate explained

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Dave Saxton
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Re: CO2 influence on climate explained

Postby Dave Saxton » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:48 pm

RF wrote:
Garyt wrote:Here's a pretty simple test you can do yourself if you want - shows how C02 works to increase temperature.

http://www.rsc.org/Education/Teachers/R ... n/home.htm


A very basic and simple test, using a bottle containing 100% carbon dioxide.

However two questions over the stated result does come to mind.

Firstly it doesn't answer my previous questions about temperatures on the planets Mars, Jupiter and Saturn - why are they so cold with their greenhouse gas atmospheres?

Secondly the Earth's atmosphere has only a tiny CO2 content. The example doesn't seem to mention the results with the control bottle, I would assume some temperature increase on account of the fact that the surface of the container does heat up.

As Earth's atmosphere has such a small CO2 content this experiment is not realistic in demonstrating the effects of a doubling or tripling of a tiny content. To start heating the Earth up the CO2 would need to become a substantial content of Earth's atmosphere. Even on Mars where it is 97% daytime temperatures average well below freezing. It is sufficiently cold for the CO2 to freeze at the poles.



What those kind of experiments fail to take into account are what climatologists call feedbacks. Warmests claim that the tiny co2 warming compounds the interaction of water vapor and clouds. That is grossly over simplifying though, because this results in thunderstorms which results in cooling. Salby (an atmospheric scientist) shows that the most important feedback mechanism is convection which nullifies any "green house effect" and wipes out all other feedbacks.
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

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Re: CO2 influence on climate explained

Postby Dave Saxton » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:03 pm

RF wrote:
Garyt wrote:
C02 Is indeed at it's highest point in probably 20 million years. I don't think that is debatable, it's at over 400ppm from perhaps 280ppm a hundred or so years ago.

There we have that C02 is increasing, and it does work as a "greenhouse gas". The only questions really is
1) How much does it effect the temperature of the planet, and
2) Is the increase man made.



The current observed increase in CO2 content needs to be seen in context. It is still a tiny fraction of 1%.

The maximum CO2 content in Earth's atmosphere is believed to be about 9% if the theory about the ''snowball Earth'' is to be accepted. In that scenario a content of around 7% was needed, with the CO2 provided as ejecta from super-volcanic eruptions, to start raising global temperatures and melt out a global ice age. At that time plate tectonics was far more dynamic and violent than it is today, partly due to the much closer proximity of the Moon.

I believe the current measures are far too small to have any measurable effect.

Is the increase man made? Well the ''climate change'' lobbyists get around having to prove that by building it in as the answer to apparently unexplainable temperature increases in their computer models. In other words, it is an assumption.

Salby addresses this issue(s) as well. It's too complicated for me summarize here. I think it would be worth your time to view the presentation. It is not the full 1:40, as there is an extended question and answer session afterward. The lecture is a bit over an hour and includes charts and graphs which help greatly.

Salby is currently challenged on details, even by skeptics, mainly over methodology, but this really helps ones understanding of the complexities of the issues-agree or disagree in part or in full.
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

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Re: CO2 influence on climate explained

Postby RF » Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:00 pm

Dave Saxton wrote:
Salby is currently challenged on details, even by skeptics, mainly over methodology, but this really helps ones understanding of the complexities of the issues-agree or disagree in part or in full.


I think the burden of proof should lie with those lobbyists promoting AGW. And they are lobbyists, not true climate scientists.

Let them produce the evidence that can be proved, that stands up to rigorous testing and can be empirically demonstrated.

They won't do that, I suggest because there is no such evidence. Instead we have bluster and bullying instead of reasoned argument, they behave like party politicians at election time. We have another example of it today, with the lobbyists demanding a reduction in carbon emissions to zero by 2050 to stop global temperatures rising by 2 degrees centigrade. No debate, no evidence, we are expected to accept what they demand without any question. They remind me of the Roman Catholic religion in the Middle Ages with its dogmatic insistence that the Earth was the centre of the universe when Galileo demonstrated that actually the Earth and the other solar system planets all orbited the Sun.

I might add that in Britain we have a General Election in the offing, with polling just two weeks off. All the party politicians are playing the climate change card including the Conservative Party, even though the socialist policies the lobbyists want go against the free market ideology that Margaret Thatcher stood for. Ask a Conservative why they believe in AGW and they don't want to hear the question.

The only party that is challenging the AGW scamsters is the UK Independence Party. The hatred the AGW lobbyists and other politicians have for UKIP has to be experienced to be believed. The conduct of these thugs - they even have an organisation called ''Unite against Fascism'' to combat UKIP - and their fascist tactics (just like the Blackshirts and the Brownshirts) is now starting to backfire with the general public, as it looks as if UKIP will get a substantial vote.
All UKIP has done is to pledge to abolish in Britain all the climate change legislation that the EU has imposed on us, to leave the EU and to stop wasting taxpayers money on subsidised windfarms and economically inefficient carbon capture technology. They have pledged to make covert lobbying illegal.

Let the AGW bubble burst.
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