The Brits want out of the EU

Anything else you want to talk about.
User avatar
Dave Saxton
Supporter
Posts: 2882
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:02 pm
Location: Rocky Mountains USA

The Brits want out of the EU

Postby Dave Saxton » Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:39 am

There's a move on in the UK to get out of the EU.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... endum.html
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

User avatar
RF
Senior Member
Posts: 7490
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:15 pm
Location: Wolverhampton, ENGLAND

Re: The Brits want out of the EU

Postby RF » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:39 pm

Correction.

UKIP (the UK Independence Party) wants Britain out of the EU. Most of the rest of the so called ''Eurosceptics'' such as Boris Johnson have their own agenda and ambitions.

There is indeed a referendum to be held on 23 June 2016 in which the British Government expects the British public to swallow their position and dutifully vote to remain in the EU. That is the purpose of the referendum - to kill once and for all the desire of some voters and of UKIP to force Britain out of the EU.
If Cameron fails and the referendum produces, as I hope it will, the wrong result, Cameron's position as Prime Minister is vulnerable. Britain would not in that situation leave the EU as the British Government would procrastinate and seek another set of negotiations to keep Britain in and then offer them in a second referendum. The EU doesn't do democracy and won't take ''no'' for an answer. Moreover it cannot because Britain is the ''cash cow'' helping the Germans bankroll the EU.
Boris Johnson has the image of a buffoon but in fact he is a very clever political operator. He wants Cameron's job. If Cameron loses I would expect Johnson to challenge for his job. Cameron might even go voluntarily in a secret agreement by which Johnson succeeds him and as the new Prime Minister wiil renegotiate and get ''better terms'' from the EU - and put them to a second referendum. Johnson knows he would be more likely to win a second referendum than Cameron.

So, surprise surprise, Johnson doesn't really want out of the EU after all - its just a career tactical move.

The only way to be sure to get Britain out of the EU is to have UKIP in government. The EU cannot afford Britain to leave and Angela Mearkel certainly can't - Germany cannot fund the EU single handedly.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

User avatar
Dave Saxton
Supporter
Posts: 2882
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:02 pm
Location: Rocky Mountains USA

Re: The Brits want out of the EU

Postby Dave Saxton » Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:39 am

and leave it is :clap: :clap: :clap:
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

northcape
Member
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:31 am

Re: The Brits want out of the EU

Postby northcape » Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:38 pm

Wow, fantastic.

Now UK can be "independent" again, whatever that means in a globalized world. But the important thing is that narcissists like Nigel Farage can have a laugh, right?

It will be interesting to see how the extremely diverse and robust UK economy will now rapidly grow. Maybe it will help that Scots and Northern Irish already declare to leave the British Union, making Great Britain a Little Britain indeed.

Like I read in a newspaper, it was basically the english (not british) nationalists who were driving the exit campaign. So the leave has nothing to do with independency or strategic foresight, but in my opinion is better summarised by this line of the Pink Floyd Song: "Would you like to see Britannia rule again, my friend? All you have to do is to follow the worms!"

It is just bitter that the future of the young people is decided by the old people who lived their life already and can't accept change.

Yes, I'm in favour of a political union in Europe. I do of course don't have any problem if the people of a country decide against it, that is what democracy is about. But here in Europe, the influence of ill-informed (to be polite) narcissists with bad character (Farage, Le Pen, Strache, many more) is destroying any useful discussion. These people are not nationalists, nor do they fight for their country or their people - their only agenda is themselves. They don't have any knowledge of the most basic economics, nor are they interested in political and societal interdependencies. Farage already declared that his promise to redirect the weekly transfer of 325 Mio Euros (or some other fantasy number he mentioned) to the EU to the NHS (British Health Service) possibly will not happen. Surprise, surprise - an ill-informed populist breaks his promise one day after the election.
And these are the people who decide about the future of millions of people. But again, no british speciality, Currently this is the trend all over Europe and other places in the western world. If you think its good - fair enough. I don't think it is.

User avatar
frontkampfer
Member
Posts: 221
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 2:35 am
Location: Phillipsburg, NJ - USA

Re: The Brits want out of the EU

Postby frontkampfer » Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:25 am

Good for the Brits!
"I will not have my ship shot out from under my ass!"

User avatar
RF
Senior Member
Posts: 7490
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:15 pm
Location: Wolverhampton, ENGLAND

Re: The Brits want out of the EU

Postby RF » Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:16 pm

Yes, but this vote is only a start.

Legally the voters have delivered their verdict. The UK remains in the European Union until it completes the legal process of withdrawal - that is down to the UK government and parliament.

I expect there to be a lot of opposition to withdrawal, in the form of obstructing and delaying the moves to withdraw. Some pro-EU people have threatened to ignore the vote and there are moves for a second referendum to be held.

I have always felt that the UK won't get out of the EU until we have a government that genuinely believes in withdrawal, which is why I think it will take a UKIP government to get us out and not a Conservative one.
Cameron resigning is a positive step - but who succeeds him? If it is Boris Johnson we will find out whether he genuinely wants to withdraw or simply uses the referendum result for further ''renegotiation'' with the EU with another ''deal'' followed by a second referendum in which he recommends we stay in.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

User avatar
Dave Saxton
Supporter
Posts: 2882
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:02 pm
Location: Rocky Mountains USA

Re: The Brits want out of the EU

Postby Dave Saxton » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:39 pm

My opinion is that it was a push back against Big Government tyranny and bureaucracy rule in the nick of time. It is a step up to protect the heritage and legacy of what Churchill called the English speaking peoples. As Danial Hannan wrote:

… the people of what is now called Great Britain created something entirely different from the closed and centralized regimes that have been the norm in most of human history. They produced a society where rulers were subject to the law and the law belonged to the people, where collective will did not trump individual right, and where free citizens were permitted to create and keep their own wealth. These principles have transformed the world: “The miracles of the past three and a half centuries—the unprecedented improvements in democracy, in longevity, in freedom, in literacy, in calorie intake, in infant survival rates, in height, in equality of opportunity—came about largely because of the individualist market system developed by the Anglosphere.”
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240 ... 3693919116


What I have observed is a systemic regression from these ideals during the last decade especially. Instead of advancing freedom, the leaders of the western democracies have gone along with and advanced movements that that are actually in opposition to these ideals.

Once again it has been the people of the British Isles to step up first.

Let this be the beginning and not the end.
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

paul.mercer
Senior Member
Posts: 571
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:25 pm

Re: The Brits want out of the EU

Postby paul.mercer » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:36 pm

Gentlemen,
Whatever happens now the vote to leave has been taken the people of the UK must not let the pro EU politicians try to organise another vote as those in Ireland and Denmark did. The majority of the people in the UK have spoken, they wanted to leave an overly bureaucratic,undemocratic organisation whose primary goal is to form a European superstate - that decision must be respected.

User avatar
RF
Senior Member
Posts: 7490
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:15 pm
Location: Wolverhampton, ENGLAND

Re: The Brits want out of the EU

Postby RF » Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:16 am

Will it be respected - well we will see.

This referendum was held by Cameron firstly to solve the problem of UKIP (give them the referendum, win it and UKIP folds in defeat) and secondly to override any future opposition to further EU integration that would trigger a referendum then - such referendum now already been held.

It all went to plan except the electorate voted the wrong way. Instead of dutifully voting to stay in the EU as expected they voted to leave! Oh dear! Now the politicians are left with the mess!

It is only a mess because they don't want to leave and a majority of the electorate do. Its a very high risk position - if the electorate clocks that they are being made fools of there is now UKIP that could wipe them out at the next general election. However it doesn't fall due until May 2020 and four years is a long time.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

northcape
Member
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:31 am

Re: The Brits want out of the EU

Postby northcape » Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:09 am

Fantastic human resources among the Brexiters. Farage and Johnson already quit, realizing the responsibilities they would have had faced.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36702468
("I want my life back" - what a whimp)

http://www.bbc.com/news/video_and_audio ... s/36677623

The cream of the "English speaking people", really.

How anybody could mention self-obsessed narcissists like this together with Churchill should remain a mystery to me.

User avatar
RF
Senior Member
Posts: 7490
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:15 pm
Location: Wolverhampton, ENGLAND

Re: The Brits want out of the EU

Postby RF » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:29 am

I don't really think the above post contributes much of significance. Brexit does not depend on two individuals.

With respect to Nigel Farage, he was nearly killed in a plane crash at the end of the 2010 General Election campaign, he planned to resign as UKIP leader if he failed to get into parliament in the 2015 general election - he wasn't elected in an election in which alleged malpractice against him by political opponents is still under investigation by law enforcement agencies =-he tendered his resignation which was rejected by the party. without his efforts there would have been no referendum at all. Describing him as a wimp is the height of ignorant abuse. He deserves his retirement, it is overdue and UKIP can now elect a new leader to take them into the 2020 general election.

With respect to Boris Johnson, he is a leading member of the Conservative Party, a party that I do not support and will never vote for. What he does is of no concern to me, especially as prior to this referendum he supported EU membership. He has entirely his own agenda.

The issue now is what this Conservative government is going to do. Will they deliver Brexit? That is what matters. If they don't they could be replaced by a party and government that does believe in Brexit.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

User avatar
José M. Rico
Administrator
Posts: 815
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:23 am
Location: Madrid, Spain
Contact:

Re: The Brits want out of the EU

Postby José M. Rico » Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:32 pm

What do you think about Boris Johnson as Foreign Secretary?
... and, what will be the impact of Brexit on the British colony of Gibraltar?

User avatar
RF
Senior Member
Posts: 7490
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:15 pm
Location: Wolverhampton, ENGLAND

Re: The Brits want out of the EU

Postby RF » Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:06 pm

Well, I have already commented on Boris Johnson, whether as Prime Minister or as Foreign Secretary we shall gradually find out how much he is genuinely for a British exit from the EU.

The position on Gibraltar is an interesting one. The territory voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU because the residents want the land border kept open for economic reasons. As I understand it these same residents do not want Gibraltar to incorporate into Spain.
What happens here will depend on the Brexit negotiations, will the border be kept open as part of a Brexit deal with the EU, if so would Spain comply?
I don't think things will change much - if Spain does move to force Gibraltar into its territory by closing the border or by other hostile means it could in turn have an effect on Spain's relations with Morocco in respect of Ceuta and Mellila.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

User avatar
Gary
Senior Member
Posts: 706
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:37 pm
Location: Northumberland

Re: The Brits want out of the EU

Postby Gary » Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:45 pm

I voted to leave.
The whole EU is a corrupt, corporate racket designed to slowly erode nation state sovereignty and identity.
Freedom of movement is a joke and the sooner its scrapped the better.
Why do you think the EU is allowing these economic migrants to flood Europe? (even EU admits the majority are NOT genuine refugee's).
We do NOT need the EU to trade and survive economically - that's just the line the remainer's spun to try to frighten us.
Countless peoples jobs in Republic of Ireland and Germany depend on trade with the UK so I cant see them making it hard for us.
I cant see BMW, Audi, VW, Mercedes refusing our business.
I'm happy to be friends with Europe and trade/discuss etc but I do NOT wish to have Jean Claude Juncker and co running MY country nor do I wish to be sucked into a United States of Europe.

Theresa May (our new PM) has said "Brexit means Brexit" and she has appointed David Davis, a staunch Euro-sceptic as BREXIT SECRETARY (a new cabinet post) so I think we are going in the right direction.
God created the world in 6 days.........and on the 7th day he built the Scharnhorst

User avatar
RF
Senior Member
Posts: 7490
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:15 pm
Location: Wolverhampton, ENGLAND

Re: The Brits want out of the EU

Postby RF » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:52 pm

Gary wrote:I voted to leave.
Why do you think the EU is allowing these economic migrants to flood Europe? (even EU admits the majority are NOT genuine refugee's)..


To reduce unskilled wage levels, and some semi-skilled wages as well. This benefits particulary Germany where post WW2 there has historically been an influx of non-German labour which keeps wages and costs of labour down, benefitting the large employers and multi-national companies. The latter lobbied the EU specifically for this mobility of labour, as did the British CBI, who also would like to see immigration lower British wage rates (though they won't admit it publicly). That is one reason why the CBI was desperate to bully British voters into voting to stay in.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.


Return to “Off Topic”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest