West vs East

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Dave Saxton
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West vs East

Postby Dave Saxton » Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:52 pm

Good article contrasting the DDR vs West German capitalism.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/09/23/ ... socialism/
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Herr Nilsson
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Re: West vs East

Postby Herr Nilsson » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:15 am

Well, the West German "capitalism" (we call it "social market economy") is probably much more socialistic than the "committed socialists in the Democratic camp" are. That's why it's sounds so funny for Germans when Americans talk about socialism.
Generally speaking the article is nonsense.
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Marc

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RF
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Re: West vs East

Postby RF » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:03 am

Herr Nilsson wrote:
Generally speaking the article is nonsense.


I agree.

West Germany and the DDR were not equal in size, population or natural resources.

West Germany was rebuilt using Marshall Aid programs, which the DDR was excluded from by Stalin. West Germany benefitted from open trade with the rest of the western world, the DDR was stuck with COMECON.
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Re: West vs East

Postby northcape » Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:33 pm

If one likes black and white thinking, and prefers phrases and headlines over some insight, than he or she might like this article. But to anyone else it is just the expression of the opinion that "socialism" is evil.

Actually, the DDR was considered as a communist regime, and all non-soviet ruled countries in Europe have lived the "social market economy". This is what Americans (and I guess the writer in particular thinks of Bernie Sanders?) would consider as "socialism". In particular in Germany and Austria the "soscial(ist" component was and still is rather emphasiued. So the author actually finds that socialism is a good thing!

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Re: West vs East

Postby Steve Crandell » Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:26 pm

Americans are, as I'm sure you are aware, are not monolithic in their thinking about various political and economic issues. One who frequents military forums is likely to get more of the conservative point of view.

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Dave Saxton
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Re: West vs East

Postby Dave Saxton » Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:21 am

Indeed, many hold to the same view of socialism as Winston Churchill:

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

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RF
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Re: West vs East

Postby RF » Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:41 am

Even if you take Churchills' description of socialism just quoted above as gospel - which I do not - then I think even Churchill might on some reflection reconsider the virtue for the misery is NOT equally snared. The comrade leaders never share the misery of their subjects. Just look at North Korea as an example.

George Orwell, in Animal Farm, was far more succinct in his parody of Stalins' Soviet Union - all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.
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northcape
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Re: West vs East

Postby northcape » Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:35 pm

Dave Saxton wrote:Indeed, many hold to the same view of socialism as Winston Churchill:

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.


I still don't get it. You like the article, so I understand that you - like the author -find that socialism is a good thing (remember, Western Germany was and is a socialist country. They heavily re-distribute the income of people with relatively high income to unproductive people and people with low income via taxes and intensive transfer of social benefits). Now you are quoting that socialism is evil ?

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Re: West vs East

Postby ede144 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:55 am

northcape wrote:
Dave Saxton wrote:Indeed, many hold to the same view of socialism as Winston Churchill:

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.


I still don't get it. You like the article, so I understand that you - like the author -find that socialism is a good thing (remember, Western Germany was and is a socialist country. They heavily re-distribute the income of people with relatively high income to unproductive people and people with low income via taxes and intensive transfer of social benefits). Now you are quoting that socialism is evil ?

As long as some believe that common health insurance is communism, I don't trust their judgement what socialism is or is not. Compared to Bismarck, a certain Donald Trump is a school boy who can't be trusted to get elected to class speaker ;-)

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Re: West vs East

Postby Steve Crandell » Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:52 pm

I believe there are many poorly educated Americans who think Communism and Socialism are the same thing, and there are a number of better educated public figures who encourage that.

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Re: West vs East

Postby Dave Saxton » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:27 pm

Ah, the subtle distinction of words and their meanings. Such as educated and indoctrinated.
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

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RF
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Re: West vs East

Postby RF » Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:15 pm

The distinction is more than subtle, it is value laden.

And more important is who is doing the educating and what their real agenda is.
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