New Moderator

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José M. Rico
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New Moderator

Post by José M. Rico » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:55 am

Hello,

This is to inform you all that from now on, Bill Jurens will be board moderator. He is both an experienced and knowledgeable member of our community and has kindly volunteered to do the job. This means, that among other things, Bill will ultimately have the power to lock threads that go wild or off-topic (either temporarily or permanently), issue warnings to forum members, and basically try to make sure everybody behaves correctly as expected from mature people.

Image

Some of you have been forum members for many years now, but there will be no favorites and no more name-calling will be allowed. All users, without exception must follow the Moderator's directions, so if Bill requires you to stay on topic, or stop certain behavior, just comply. Remember, next to me as Administrator, Bill Jurens will be the authority here.

Best regards to all,

José

OpanaPointer
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Re: New Moderator

Post by OpanaPointer » Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:04 am

Amen.

Paul L
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Re: New Moderator

Post by Paul L » Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:48 am

Sounds good to me!!!
"Eine mal is kein mal"

Bill Jurens
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Re: New Moderator

Post by Bill Jurens » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:07 am

My thanks to all.

I hope only to be worthy of everyone's confidence.

Let us attempt some new ways forward commencing 16 November.

Bill Jurens

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Re: New Moderator

Post by Bill Jurens » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:09 am

P.S. to above.

I will try to put together some suggestions for guidelines and ground-rules etc. over the next day or so.

Bill Jurens

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frontkampfer
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Re: New Moderator

Post by frontkampfer » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:46 pm

Thanks, Bill!
"I will not have my ship shot out from under my ass!"

Thorsten Wahl
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Re: New Moderator

Post by Thorsten Wahl » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:38 pm

Warm welcome from me. :clap:
Meine Herren, es kann ein siebenjähriger, es kann ein dreißigjähriger Krieg werden – und wehe dem, der zuerst die Lunte in das Pulverfaß schleudert!

Algonquin-R17
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Re: New Moderator

Post by Algonquin-R17 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:29 am

Yes, I am very happy about this.

Thank you Mr. Rico,

Bob

Bill Jurens
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Re: New Moderator

Post by Bill Jurens » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:56 pm

Thanks to all for your expressions of support. I will do the best I can.

As I wrote a few days ago, my original intention was to spend a bit of time setting out guidelines, etc. to keep the discussions under better control -- i.e. to guide them along useful rather than mutually destructive paths.

The dramatic change in tone in the Denmark Straits thread over the past few days has led me to believe that there is probably no need, at least at this time, for me to actually do this. The participants so far have remained sufficiently civil and respectful as to require no rules at all. It turns out the only rule, and perhaps the only one required, is 'be nice', with perhaps an addendum of 'be patient as well..."

Let's work together to keep the positive momentum going as long as we can. As a moderator, my intention, at this point at least, would be to restrict myself to keeping the tone of the discussions civil and respectful. Participants should note that although I might see myself as moderator in circumstances of behavior, I do not see myself as in any realistic way being any moderator of fact. So, when I'm telling people to be nice, that's the moderator talking. When I'm suggesting that the range from Bismarck to Prinz Eugen was 1850 meters at 0:603, etc., that's just plain old me.

Who knows? If we can continue along paths very recently taken, we might be able to produce something useful and perhaps even interesting...

Bill Jurens

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Alberto Virtuani
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Re: New Moderator

Post by Alberto Virtuani » Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:14 am

Hello everybody,

After the umpteenth 7 days ban imposed to me, as suggested (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8725&start=15#p84823), I move here the detail discussion about my strong disagreement on the actions and the role of the "moderator" in this forum, hoping to get his answer to my strong disagreement (and not only the choir of his supporters...).
Bill Jurens wrote: "I am an advocate of free speech -- as the old saying goes "I may disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it", but even that guideline does have limits, in this case primarily revolving around the application of reasonable and respectful discourse. "
Respectfully, you are not.

You are just locking threads when they become inconvenient for yourself as "guy" or as "moderator", as you have done with the "Court Martial" thread instead of explaining why your book is accounting for the Leach Court Martial threat as it does (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6728&start=2250#p84821).

Please also read the post that "caused" my ban (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8725&start=15#p84820) and tell me if the insults (?) "stadium fans"or "non super-partes" (?) can be considered enough to ban me (when you had just lightly tolerated that someone called me "troll" viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6728&start=2250#p84790). I have been very reasonable in my observations (you have chosen not to answer to them for what concers yourself: your choice and your responsibility) and very respectful (not using any insulting word, that had been used against me, without any due intervention from you).


You are banning me because I have outlined what you have done yourself: not only the "guy" had "adopted" (and again please note that I'm using very kind words with you) the 2005 Antonio's battlemap but also (and this is the worst thing) the "moderator" has come in, attacked Antonio and forced him to leave because the "moderator" knew that Antonio would have denounced what the "guy" had done with his map. I understand you may not like it to be written black and white here in public, but this is what you have done.

1) your refusal to answer regarding pag.211 map vs Antonio's 2005 map specific aspects (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8258&start=45#p84743 , viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8725#p84808),
2) your refusal to post "your" pag.211 map here (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8725#p84809 , viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8725&start=15#p84820) and
3) your refusal to comment about the real reasons why you have volonteered to play the role of moderator while your book was being published

all the above speak for themselves, in front of everybody.

You have very unfortunately been given by the Administrator the power to ban me forever: however, you will never silence the truth...




More specifically, regarding your role of "moderator" I would like to understand from you why people can repeatedly call me "troll" (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6728&start=2250#p84790, viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8725&start=15#p84827) under your eyes, while I have to measure my words, getting banned anyway for 7 days for a generic "aggressive attitude" (that is only the result of an aggressive attitude against me from your supporters' pack) ?

Don't you see yourself that you have a big problem of "conflict of interests", preventing you to be a fair judge in this forum ?

Where is the forum Administrator, Mr.Rico, who once complained against a "poor" Danish guy who had copied from him (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6378#p57701) but who now is avoiding to take a clear position ?
Why is he now tolerating a "reputed" person to do the same with someone else (who has given so much to his forum in the last years) AND at the same time to moderate his forum despite that ?
Why is he not responding to the "reported threads" and private mails I have sent him regarding the way the forum is moderated ?





Back to something factual and constructive from my part, having seen that you have no intention at all (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8725#p84809) to post "your" "original" battlemap (from pag.211 of your new book) here to allow everybody to check and evaluate the similarities and the differences with Antonio's 2005 one), I will not insist further on the "creatorship" aspects of the map (having read the mails sent by Antonio to the naval community this point is crystal clear by now).

I will limit my future posts to aspects of the Denmark Strait battle and aftermath (if not provoked by someone else from your side, of course).



Bye, Alberto
"It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition" (Adm.A.B.Cunningham)

"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)

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Alberto Virtuani
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Re: New Moderator

Post by Alberto Virtuani » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:49 pm

Hello everybody,

due to the umpteenth action of the "moderator" against me (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8725&p=84893#p84892) and me only (as usual in his very special way of "moderating" the forum), I have to get back to the matter that makes him unsuitable for playing such a role, moving the discussion to this dedicated thread.



@ Bill Jurens:

It's evident to everybody by now that you have unduly used material from Antonio Bonomi in your book (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8725&start=30#p84860) without acknowledging the intellectual property of his material. Your refusal to answer the precise question I have raised speaks for itself.

Please, Mr.Jurens, last chance for you to justify yourself: a direct answer to my two direct questions (here in bold: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8725&start=30#p84873), or I will have to understand that you have no way to answer and that you therefore admit what I'm saying about the creatorship of the map (presented at pag.211 of your book as an original wok of yours...).


Bye, Alberto
"It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition" (Adm.A.B.Cunningham)

"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)

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Re: New Moderator

Post by Bill Jurens » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:27 pm

I have, with some reluctance, let Mr. Virtuani's commentary stand. Insofar as he has now been banned from the forum and cannot reply, I think it certainly inappropriate for me, and probably inappropriate for others, to reply and convert (one might say hijack) this "New Moderator" thread into a "Denmark Strait Battle" thread as well.

Mr. Virtuani is adding no information not already posted. I have replied to his previous postings to the best of my ability, and really have nothing to add either. In that regard, again in the absence of new information, I consider the discussion closed. Readers may judge for themselves.

No book is perfect when published. In that regard, as in the case of other things that have come up, I will add his commentary to the list of other suggested revisions, rewrites, and corrections that are worthy of consideration should a second edition come to the printers.

Further discussion of the Denmark Strait track chart, should it be appropriate or felt desirable, should be directed to a properly defined thread carrying that heading, rather than clogging up the 'New Moderator' forum.

Constructive and even critical commentary regarding the moderator, i.e. myself, are, by the way welcome. As many readers may have noticed, although I don't really enjoy personal attacks, I also don't take offense very easily either.

Bill Jurens

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Re: New Moderator

Post by Bill Jurens » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:58 pm

My thanks to those that have taken the time to send private messages regarding my recent actions on the forum. These comments are most useful to me in helping to define and control paths we may be taking in the future. Further, insofar as private comments are not presented in the form of public commentary -- they do not, regardless of content, serve to inflame others that may disagree.

Please do send more if and as you feel appropriate. I AM listening...

Bill Jurens

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Alberto Virtuani
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Re: New Moderator

Post by Alberto Virtuani » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:46 am

Hello everybody,
I post this here and not where I was insulted, to try not to hurt people's sensitivity, diverting the discussion from the historical or technical topics treated in the relevant threads...



Back I am, after a very long ban, justified not as the result of an explicit insult or an aggression to another forum member, but just of the fact I'm defending (alone) a clear position against insulting, provoking and mocking people from the other side.

Should we "refresh" the "moderator's" memory about a FACT (not his own interpretation of my "argumentative tones"): the fact that I had been called "troll" in public by 3 different "people" who had not been even "cautioned" by him, apparently happy to have any kind of support in his delicate position (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8725&p=84864&hilit=troll#p84864, viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8725&p=84827&hilit=troll#p84827, viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6728&p=84790&hilit=troll#p84790 ) ?

Should we highlight to him the FACT that he has left unaltered in the forum for 5 days this explicit aggression, without taking ANY action against the provoker (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8725&p=84925#p84925) ?

I'm afraid Mr.Jurens is totally wrong in his above post: this is exactly the right thread where we should speak about his way to "moderate" this forum (and the reasons behind his attitude) in public and not only in a private (and hidden) way.




However, as it looks like no explanation and no answer can come from him (at least "to the best of his ability") to my cogent questions regarding his own actions as "guy" (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8725&start=30#p84873) I will stop addressing my questions to him and I will kindly ask directly Mr.Rico involvement to provide his formal and public position about this situation.



Bye, Alberto
"It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition" (Adm.A.B.Cunningham)

"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)

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Alberto Virtuani
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Re: New Moderator

Post by Alberto Virtuani » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:05 am

Hello everybody,

@ Mr.Rico,
I would kindly ask your intervention in front of everybody, asking you 6 direct questions with reference to the last developments on your forum :

Could you please confirm that:

1) you have fully read and understood how Mr.Jurens has moderated (during almost one full year now) your forum since he "volunteered" for the role of "moderator", banning repeatedly only our side 5 times for generic "militant polemic attitudes" (?) and leaving his supporters free to insult and unpunished (please, see links in the above post viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8347#p84944)) ?

2) you have understood that the "moderator" has undoubtedly copied Antonio Bonomi's 2005 map (errors included, not even understanding how the map itself had been built (using photos and film) by its creator (see my question n.1 to him here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8725&start=30#p84873) and has used it in his book (download/file.php?id=3593), with his signature and without any specific direct acknowledgement for the battle reconstruction to Antonio (being irrelevant the very "generic" mention among the plethora of "Read Articles" in the bibliography) ?

3) you have understood the real reasons why, just before publishing his book, the "moderator "volunteered" to come here with the excuse to re-establish more moderate tones, but with the real intent to attack Antonio Bonomi only, before he could duly react to the plagiarism he was going to suffer and force him to leave the forum, to try to (quite awkwardly....) reduce his reaction to a personal "querelle" or to a kind of "revenge" ((viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8725&start=15#p84852) ?

4) you (as forum webmaster as well as author unduly "plagiarised" by a certain Danish guy) still consider Mr.Jurens to have all the prerequisites to be an appropriate "moderator", having no personal interest in the discussion, protecting the freedom of everybody ( (including myself, for which he has instead "pre-announced" a definitive ban here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8725&sid=b57e6397f3 ... =45#p84899) and being allowed, due to his "superior moral stature", to "censor" other forum member's behaviour?

5) you have also understood that the moderator's "supporters" are just defending his personal untenable position as "guy" because they feel comfortably "protected" by him as "moderator", despite the very annoying fact for them that his book is actually rubbishing almost all their "fantasies" about the reconstruction of the Denmark Strait battle and its "regrettable aftermath" (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8258&start=30#p84686, viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8526&start=45#p84777, viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6728&start=2250#p84789), fully "adopting" Antonio's reconstruction ?

6) Finally and in summary, are you happy to leave things going on this way in your forum also for the next future ?


I would really appreciate honest, unambiguous and straight answers (even if very unpleasant for myself... or for anybody else...) , to clearly understand your position, and to be able to take myself a decisions about my future contribution to the forum, as a consequence.
Thanks in advance.


In the meantime, I would be very grateful to all other members (moderator included, as he had plenty of opportunities to answer already and always refused to do so...) to avoid any commentary and let Mr.Rico provide his formal position.



Bye, Alberto
"It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition" (Adm.A.B.Cunningham)

"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)

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