Cheers from Canada
I guess I'm just stupid but please don't take any pleasure in telling me so. I am new to this forum. During WW2 and in particular the Bismarck and all who came before her a sea battle had to take place by sight is that not so? Fighting over the horizon wouldn't have came until after the radar and then for the rest of the war that wouldn't be an easy task either unless planes were used. You have quoted some long distances. What was the accuracy like when pulling off 30,000 or more yards. I have a 410. gaugebut I doubt if I could kill a partridge at 10 feet. Well there goes my qualifications. You guys do an excellent job on this site and the best to you all in 2007. What about the above.
Rev. Ron Clark
Distance to Horizon
Hi RClark.
British Capital ships of the WW1 period were generally limited to about 23,500 yards main gun range.
The longest hits on moving targets is a tie between Scharnhorst and Warspite.
Scharnhorst hit Glorious at 26,465 yards - Warspite hit Gulio Cesare at similiar distance.
There are cases of USN battleships shooting at shore targets at nearly 40,000 yards but that was done by radar and of course the target was stationary.
As for "distance to the horizon"........there is no real answer.
How long is a piece of string?
Some days you may see in excess of 25,000 yards - other days visibilty may be as low as 6 or 7000 yards.
I can imagine the Pacific will get some real clear days where you can see a very long way.
The North Atlantic will often have poor weather with squalls severly reducing vision.
British Capital ships of the WW1 period were generally limited to about 23,500 yards main gun range.
The longest hits on moving targets is a tie between Scharnhorst and Warspite.
Scharnhorst hit Glorious at 26,465 yards - Warspite hit Gulio Cesare at similiar distance.
There are cases of USN battleships shooting at shore targets at nearly 40,000 yards but that was done by radar and of course the target was stationary.
As for "distance to the horizon"........there is no real answer.
How long is a piece of string?
Some days you may see in excess of 25,000 yards - other days visibilty may be as low as 6 or 7000 yards.
I can imagine the Pacific will get some real clear days where you can see a very long way.
The North Atlantic will often have poor weather with squalls severly reducing vision.
God created the world in 6 days.........and on the 7th day he built the Scharnhorst
Distance to Horizon
Thanks Gary, but the point is they had to see the the other ship before they could fire on it. Even in early WW2 with fog like pea soup the chance are you're going to ram a ship before firing upon it. or am I really out to lunch!
Re: Distance to Horizon
If you can get a copy of USS Washington's action eport for Guadalcanal, I bet you'd really enjoy reading it. They know they're going up against a powerful force, and they keep getting radar contacts, which they do a fine job assessing--things like a "repeat" from an island 100,000 yards away and "side lobes" from Savo Island. When they find enemy ships, they try desperately to use their Mk 3 radar to get bearing data, but it doesn't work. They finally open fire on a surface target when they make optical contact at about 18,500 yards; that was just a light cruiser and some destroyers. When they finally find the battleship, they can't open fire until within 8400 yards. I can't imagine how tense things must have been.
Distances' - Tiornu
Tiornu,
That does sound very interesting "USS Washington's action report at/for Guadalcanal. Is it in the form of a book, where would I get a copy of it?
Thank you
Ron Clark
That does sound very interesting "USS Washington's action report at/for Guadalcanal. Is it in the form of a book, where would I get a copy of it?
Thank you
Ron Clark
Re: Distances' - Tiornu
It may be online somewhere. Try a web search.
Failing that, you can request it from the US National Archives. Those reports get addictive, and expensive. (some are remarkably insightful, even philosophical at points. I have one from Leyte that notes the IJN commander had to know the situation he was sailing into was certain death since his recon planes had seen the US fleet, and chose to anyway. The writer wondering if Bushido had a expression for being "thrown to the wolves.)
Distances' - Tiornu & Nlneff
Thank you to both, I did find it through web search and there are pages upon pagesabout action reports and it answers somewhat about my origional question. Without radar sea battles could only happen by "sight seen". Surface ships only. I don't know what the longest "hit and sink" is by a submarine prior to radar or after?
Rev. Ron Clark
Rev. Ron Clark
Re: Distances' - Tiornu & Nlneff
Off the top of my head, the longest-ranged fatal torpedo hit by a sub might be the accidental hit on O'Brien that followed the Wasp sinking.