Naval Architect, Naval Engineer, Marine Engineer...

Warship design and construction, terminology, navigation, hydrodynamics, stability, armor schemes, damage control, etc.
Monitor
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Naval Architect, Naval Engineer, Marine Engineer...

Postby Monitor » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:52 pm

I'm confused here. :?
What is the difference between a Naval Architect and a Naval Engineer? The first designs ships' structures and the other ships' machinery, is that correct? ... and what about Marine Engineer and Chief Enginner?

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Re: Naval Architect, Naval Engineer, Marine Engineer...

Postby tommy303 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:15 pm

Naval architect is a person whose job criteria include design, construction, and repair of sea-going vessels.

Marine engineer encompasses some aspects of the above, but primarily is concerned with design, construction, installation, operation and repair of propulsion equipment and associated machinery, as well as operation, design and repair of ancilliary systems which maintain habitability on board a ship.

Naval engineer in some countries is another term for a marine engineer--just a matter of semantics. In others though it is a clear division between the above and someone who is primarily concerned with operating and maintaining a ship's propulsion system.

A chief engineer normally refers to the head of a ship's engineer department.

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Re: Naval Architect, Naval Engineer, Marine Engineer...

Postby Karl Heidenreich » Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:18 am

I thought that the naval architect is the guy that defines the layout and characteristics of the ship as an architect do with buildings. The engineer is the guy that actually deals with the structural issues, machinery, propulsion and all that stuff.
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Re: Naval Architect, Naval Engineer, Marine Engineer...

Postby tommy303 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:15 am

As I said before, it was a matter of semantics in some cases. In the design and building stage, marine architects are the ones who lay out the basic structure of the ship; during this same stage, marine engineers with specialties in design and construction are the ones who oversee design and installation of the equipment--it is a symbiotic relationship as the two must work together so as to produce a proper design. One can see the results particularly in cases where the two did not necessarily work as well together as they should have--i.e. Scharnhorst class is an example where the boilers did not fit into the space provided by the architects. In some instances the marine architects and marine or naval engineers may be from the civilian sector; in others they may be from the military sector.

The operating staff of the engineering department of a ship are usually chosen for their abilities and training in the operation and maintaining of the propulsion system and auxiliary equipment. Training in some cases may be university level or through trade schools as well as military specialist schools.

Damage control officers and warrant officers usually will have passed through specialist schools taught by marine architects and in their jobs may be assisted by a marine architect on staff.

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Re: Naval Architect, Naval Engineer, Marine Engineer...

Postby RF » Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:56 pm

Karl Heidenreich wrote:I thought that the naval architect is the guy that defines the layout and characteristics of the ship as an architect do with buildings. The engineer is the guy that actually deals with the structural issues, machinery, propulsion and all that stuff.


As tommy303 says it is largely a question of semantics, although I would have thought that a naval architect is different from an RIBA practioner. A naval architect would by definition have to be an engieer anyway to be able to design/specify the characteristics of a ship?
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Re: Naval Architect, Naval Engineer, Marine Engineer...

Postby foeth » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:17 am

Naval architecture is a wider term, encompassing the entire ship design, while a marine engineer is tasked with engineering the power plant, system engineering structural integrity and so forth, but could be responsible for the general arrangement. A naval architect always has a strong background in marine engineering (you need to study naval architecture & marine engineering) while a marine engineer is not necessarily a naval architect. The lead architect could just as well be any marine engineer, as the design of a ship is technically too complex to leave to anyone without a engineering background.

Sometimes, for yachts and cruise ships, there are actual conceptual artists at work (Phillip Stark and so forth) but that is quite rare for other types of ship.

The Chief Engineer is the head of the engine room(s) and is (on merchant ships) nearly the captain's equal. On a typical ship bridge, the captain has the largest room at port side and the chief on starboard. I suppose there's a difference between a marine engineer with a degree in marine engineering and the marine engineers running the ship?

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Re: Naval Architect, Naval Engineer, Marine Engineer...

Postby José M. Rico » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:23 am

Here in Spain a Naval Architect (Ingeniero Naval) has to study a 5-year degree at the university.

A Chief Engineer on a warship is a naval officer in charge of operating and maintaining the ship's machinery, but not necessarily a guy with a degree in Naval Architecture/Engineering. I had a relative who was Chief Engineer on board the heavy cruiser Canarias, and he was not a Naval Architect. On the Bismarck, the Chief Engineer was Korvettenkapitän Walter Lehmann, and as far as I know, he didn't have a degree in Naval Architecture either.

One thing is to know how to operate machinery and another thing is designing and building it.

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Karl Heidenreich
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Re: Naval Architect, Naval Engineer, Marine Engineer...

Postby Karl Heidenreich » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:07 pm

It´s good to see foeth around. I remember when I was foolish enough to defy him in an argument about propellers. From time to time I can be real dumb!
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Re: Naval Architect, Naval Engineer, Marine Engineer...

Postby tommy303 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:46 pm

Jose,

I believe Korvettenkapitän Walter Lehmann had a diploma in engineering (Korvettenkapitän (Dipl. Ing.) Walter Lehmann), which is a master's degree awarded through a topical University of Applied Sciences (Fachhochschulen). This degree was probably required for him to advance beyond the rank of Kapitänleutnant.

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Re: Naval Architect, Naval Engineer, Marine Engineer...

Postby José M. Rico » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:05 pm

Oh yes, you may be correct Tommy. I guess things can vary in different countries.
How is it in the USN? Is the Chief Engineer of a modern destroyer for example required to have a university degree just like any marine engineer?

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Re: Naval Architect, Naval Engineer, Marine Engineer...

Postby tommy303 » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:28 am

I believe that is often the case now in the USN. Many officers enter the navy through University Rotc programs so that they have a degree in hand upon going into the service; such degrees are usually BA or BS level, but if a career officer wishes to advance, it is often necessary for him to continue his academic education at the masters level in his field of specialty.

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And saved the sum of things for pay.

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Re: Naval Architect, Naval Engineer, Marine Engineer...

Postby Monitor » Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:33 pm

Thank you all for your time answering my questions.

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Re: Naval Architect, Naval Engineer, Marine Engineer...

Postby stevemartin » Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:20 am

Monitor wrote:I'm confused here. :?
What is the difference between a Naval Architect and a Naval Engineer? The first designs ships' structures and the other ships' machinery, is that correct? ... and what about Marine Engineer and Chief Enginner?








Naval engineering deals with the construction and managemwent of ships while marine engineering deals with trade of cargos of materials using ships for transit and their maintanence. :D


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