Admiral Hipper

[Gary]

Hi guys.

Is it true that Hipper had a better operating radius (fuel range) than Prinz Eugen?

Also, how does the Hipper class match up in terms of Fire control, gun power and armour compared to other 8" cruisers?
I know Hippers deck protection was bad.

Thanks

[Ulrich Rudofsky]

The range was slightly more for Hipper than for Prinz Eugen. Gröner says: HP 6800 nm @20 knots; 7900 @19. PG 6800 @20; 7200 @20. Fuel capacity HP 3050 t and 3700 t after modification. PG 3250 t and 3400 t after modification. That range was far below the Lützow, Admiral Scheer and Graf Spee which was 10000, 9100, 8900 nm @20 knots, respectively; fuel capacity was 2750, 2410 and 2500 t, respectively.

[Bgile]

The only good figures I have for comparison are US Cruisers. Almost all foreign cruisers were smaller than Hipper. The US New Orleans class treaty cruiser had 3268T fuel for 10,000 mi / 15 kts. Standard displacement was 10,000 tons, LOA of 585'6". Fire control was probably not as good. Armor was less extensive and a bit thicker. 9 8"/50 guns. There were some shell dispersion problems until the center gun was delayed as in later US ships.

If you look at the Baltimore class (beginning in 1943) you have 13,600 T standard displacement on a 673' ship. Armor was much thicker than Hipper. Fire control was modern. Fuel was 2343 T for 7900 / 15. Internal subdivision and damage control had many improvements due to wartime experience.

Then you have the Salem Class, at over 17,000 tons with fully automatic 8" guns. None were completed in time for WWII.

I think we can say that the Hippers were more powerful than US contemporary cruisers, but of course Germany cheated on the treaty, and didn't build better ships during the war like the US did. Finall, US powerplants were much more reliable than German ones.

[Ulrich Rudofsky]

USS SALEM in her glory in 1951, and clinging to life in the abandoned Quincy Yard 2005 (my visit) http://www.uss-salem.org/index.htm

[Bgile]

Hmmmm .... half of the 5" battery appears to be missing, even in 1951. Odd. I saw the Newport News during the Viet Nam war and she was fully armed, similar to when built. A bit more clutter with ECM and communications gear, but otherwise complete.

Edit: I was mistaken. I can see them now - the position of the aft port mount made it appear to me that it was missing, and I couldn't see the aftermost one at first. When I enlarged the photo, they are obviously all there.

[Ulrich Rudofsky]

Here are some more of USS SALEM in May 2005.

[Gary]

Thanks for the images Ulrich

[Captain Morgan]

Hi guys.

Is it true that Hipper had a better operating radius (fuel range) than Prinz Eugen?

Also, how does the Hipper class match up in terms of Fire control, gun power and armour compared to other 8" cruisers?
I know Hippers deck protection was bad.

Thanks

I think the difference between Hipper and PE for range is due to cruising turbines installed in Hipper. Cruising turbines are more economical at lower speeds (10-15 knots).

This is why some of the newest US cruisers from WWII were mothballed whiles the oldest ones of the same classes (Baltimore and Cleveland) were kept operational. To save cost and streamline the production of turbines and turning gear, cruising turbines were deleted. In a peace time Navy that adds to operational cost, hence the mothballing of the cruisers without cruising turbines.

[RF]

If cruising turbines are inappropriate, presumably cruising diesel engines would be more suitable.

Were cruising diesels ever proposed for the Hipper classe cruisers?