Red October

Warship design and construction, terminology, navigation, hydrodynamics, stability, armor schemes, damage control, etc.
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RF
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Red October

Post by RF »

I'm sure most people on this website have seen this film where actor Sean Connery plays Soviet sub commander Markus Remius, who uses his command, Red October, as a vehicle to defect to the US.
The Red October is depicted as having a ''caterpillar'' almost silent drive propulsion system - is this ''caterpilar'' now fact, or is it movie maker fiction?
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ontheslipway
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Post by ontheslipway »

No, it exists. It's a magneto hydrodynamics drive without any moving parts, actually built into a test vessel called Yamato. About 95% engine, 5% ship, speed 7 knots. Wiki even has an article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive
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RF
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Post by RF »

foeth wrote:No, it exists. It's a magneto hydrodynamics drive without any moving parts, actually built into a test vessel called Yamato. About 95% engine, 5% ship, speed 7 knots. Wiki even has an article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive
Still not completely silent and not as fast as an engine. Do you know if the US and Soviet/ex-Soviet navies have actually adapted this type of drive for submarine usage?
From the references to it in Red October I assume it is no longer a closely guarded secret.
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ontheslipway
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Post by ontheslipway »

I've never hear of it, and I doubt any submarine is THAT secret. You know, they are paranoid in the submarine department... they won't tell you anything even though you really don't care! But this is more a proof-of-concept ship, it's not that silent and you can't go 35+ knots with it. Not much use now.
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Karl Heidenreich
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Post by Karl Heidenreich »

Foeth:
But this is more a proof-of-concept ship, it's not that silent and you can't go 35+ knots with it. Not much use now.
There is always the danger of a new enemy to pop up. As Oliver Stone sais: "Even paranoids have real enemies".
By 1930 Germany was military worthless and everybody regarded Hitler as a clown. If his intentions and policies were regarded with common sense (as Churchill shouted) then WWII would have never took place.
If, nowaday, US does not evaluate the incoming powers to be what would be today just a matter of negociation could end in ten or twenty years in a catastrophe. And those powers to be are not going to be arabic camel driver fanatical religious terrorists. In the East a giant is awakening and gathering allies all over the world while the US (well, Smeagol Bush) is spooking the few allies and friends that remain from the Cold War days.

And about technological capability is not healthy to regard our adversaries as incapable of doing something we see as imposible because they may have found a way to do it.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill
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Terje Langoy
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Post by Terje Langoy »

Hello...

In the very same movie, I've seen it more than once, despite I don't like Alec Baldwin, the sonar operator of the Dallas also state that he's able to detect this system due to what he calls Magma displacement or Seismic abnormalies. Is this the case with the real "silent propulsion system" also?
Is this maybe a difficult question to answer..? And by the way, does anyone know if the Russians actually execute "Crazy Ivans" for real?

Regards
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Karl Heidenreich
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Post by Karl Heidenreich »

The "Crazy Ivans" are real as far as I know. About the silent drive I don´t know.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
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ontheslipway
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Post by ontheslipway »

As I understand it, the "silent drive" isn't, and no sub is fitted with this kind of propulsion system. So it's the good-ol prop or pump jet. Silent enough. The rest is Clancy in money making mode.
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Karl Heidenreich
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Post by Karl Heidenreich »

As far as I´m concerned Clancy only wrote two decent books:
1. Red October
2. Red Storm Rising

Being Patriot Games the worst, augh!!!

Off topic:
He has a villa here in Costa Rica, near the sea, and he is a neighbor of Michael Crichton who put dinosaurs in our country...
I wonder if Bram Stoker didn´t had a haunted castle somewhere around...
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill
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Terje Langoy
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Post by Terje Langoy »

Talking about books, some of the best naval litterature I've ever read came from the hand of Allistair Mclean...

* HMS Ulysses
* San Andreas
* The eagles nest" (if I've pronounced it right. In German "Schloss Adler" or something like that)

But the definitely best naval book ever is of course Mullenheim-Rechbergs battleship Bismarck. It had me like glue from beginning to end.

This doesn't concern silent propulsion but... :think:
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Terje Langoy
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Post by Terje Langoy »

foeth wrote:No, it exists. It's a magneto hydrodynamics drive without any moving parts, actually built into a test vessel called Yamato. About 95% engine, 5% ship, speed 7 knots. Wiki even has an article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive

Just to bring the topic back on track after my little digression, This magnetic field create an unfortunate magnetic signature, as mentioned in Wiki. But how would magnetic propulsion effect the soundwaves of an active sonar? Would they get drawn to, or bent off by this field?
Besides the external conditions such as the mentioned gas and air, how would this propulsion system effect the interior of a submarine, in terms of navigation instruments, degaussing-systems and such? Difficult questions to answer perhaps, but I simply had to ask. :D

Regards
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Karl Heidenreich
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Post by Karl Heidenreich »

Hi RF and Terje:

I just made a new post at Books section regarding Red October and Techno Thrillers.

Best regards.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill
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