renown and Rodney v Bismarck in the final battle

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paul.mercer
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renown and Rodney v Bismarck in the final battle

Post by paul.mercer » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:57 pm

Gentlemen,
In the letter from (see critisism of tactics thread) Phillips mentions the possibility of Rodney joining up with Renown, even though Renown had be told to keep clear unless Bismarck was heavily engaged through fear of another 'Hood disaster. If they had joined up would that combination been enough to disable or sink Bismarck, bearing in mind that in the final event Bismarck concentrated on Rodney as she was regarded as the more potent ship,so perhaps Renown might have been able to use her 15" without too much interference ?

dunmunro
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Re: renown and Rodney v Bismarck in the final battle

Post by dunmunro » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:34 pm

paul.mercer wrote:Gentlemen,
In the letter from (see critisism of tactics thread) Phillips mentions the possibility of Rodney joining up with Renown, even though Renown had be told to keep clear unless Bismarck was heavily engaged through fear of another 'Hood disaster. If they had joined up would that combination been enough to disable or sink Bismarck, bearing in mind that in the final event Bismarck concentrated on Rodney as she was regarded as the more potent ship,so perhaps Renown might have been able to use her 15" without too much interference ?
After Bismarck was crippled then Rodney alone could have done the job but the RN also had other cards to play, as there was a squadron of torpedo equipped Swordfish circling Bismarck, just waiting to be given the go ahead to attack. After the torpedoes were all expended Ark Royal could have launched further strikes with Swordfish making divebomber attacks with 500lb bombs.

It is doubtful that Bismarck would have chosen to engage Renown if Rodney rapidly closed the range, while Renown kept her distance.

Additionally, the RN 8in cruisers' fire was also rapidly degrading Bismarck's FC and secondary armament (just as PE's had done to PoW) and the combination of this plus Rodney would have overwhelmed a crippled Bismarck.

Iranon
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Re: renown and Rodney v Bismarck in the final battle

Post by Iranon » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:25 am

Very hard to make any predictions for a repeat... apart from Bismarck going down at the end as she can't run and the RN is somewhat determined to sink her.

Bismarck didn't hit anything in the final battle, which at first glance seems undersurprising given state of the ship, crew fatigue etc. However, she achieved plenty of straddles (earlier than the more numerous British force did), implying fire control & crew were still up to the task. Her guns are generally regarded as accurate, with tight patterns and therefore a good chance to achieve a hit from a given straddle. I see nothing about her uncomfortable situation that would have a direct effect on that. So why no hits before she was mostly silenced?

In a repeat/variation, do we expect Bismarck's gunnery to be terrible or excellent?

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RF
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Re: renown and Rodney v Bismarck in the final battle

Post by RF » Wed May 02, 2018 6:29 pm

Given the state Bismarck was in at the time of the final battle Renown would have had a decent chance without Rodney.

In the actual final battle there was also Norfolk and Dorsetshire as well as Rodney. A key factor was that an 8 inch shell from Norfolk knocked out Schneiders' gunnery position in the first few minutes of the battle. Replace Rodney and KGV with Renown then on the assumption Renown has plenty of fuel that ship could spend three hours smashing Bismarck into a wreck - providing there is no substantive return fire.

Renown and KGV would I think be almost as effective as Rodney and KGV, in that Renown was a decent gunnery ship, better than the KGV's at that time.
Renown and Rodney as a gunnery unit would have been better than Rodney and KGV - no dodgy gunnery or machinery breakdowns in either ship. The problem would be the vulnerability of Renown to early hits, but with Bismarck's guns quickly silenced that threat is gone.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

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