Nelson V Nagato

[Gary]

Somewhere in the Pacific, WW2.

Britains oil tanker look alike Battleship the sturdy old Nelson takes on Japans Darkhorse the Nagato (did the Japs ever apprieciate how good Nagato was?)

I'm leaning towards Nagato here.......................am I right?

[marcelo_malara]

Hi Gary:

Nelson is better protected, Nagato is faster. In fact Nelson is so slow....

[lwd]

Nagato's protection apparently varied over time. Her sister ship was truly unfortunate. It does suggest some sort of problem. I'd tend to favor Nelson although as stated the Nagato could disengage more easily. She could also fight at the range their doctrine called for. This might favor her.

[RF]

What if the Nagato was in the situation Bismarck found itself in - unable to steer?

Presumably Negato then cannot disengage or indeed chase salvoes, so Nelson then would have advantage.....

[lwd]

Nelson might have the advantage in any case. My feeling is that if you ran this sceanrio 100 times through the proverbial reasonably accurate simulation and rated each out come as a win or loss for one of the ships neither would win more than 60 or so and likely it would be much closer. I'm suspicious that Nagato might have a fire control advantage but Nelson has a protection advantage. The speed advantage lets Nagato try to implement her doctrine. I don't see either ship doing any salvo chasing. Too likely to screw up your own fire control solution.

[marcelo_malara]

Her sister ship was truly unfortunate.

Hi Iwd:

Mutsu was lost due to an internal explosion, may be a remnant of the cordite troubles of WWI. What do you mean with "unfortunate"?

[lwd]

Well when a ship just blows up I normally consider it "unfortunate". In this case I guess it was fortunate for the allies.

[Gary]

Hi guys.

Thanks for the replies.

Mutsu's loss was even more unfortunate because a detachment of trainee airmen were on board for a goodwill visit.
All were lost when she blew.

[Karl Heidenreich]

Nelson is better protected, nominally. We know that Nelson had both:

1. It pitched a lot.
2. It had shallow belt

Freidman´s is very specific that an underwater shot was likely to hit and penetrate under the belt. Nelson was quite constrained, also, because GB was, with the US, the only country that adhere herself strictly to the Naval Treaties, so only two propellers and problems with the distirbution of the 60% of the armour-machinery-gunnery from the overall displacement. Nagato, built before that, was, perhaps, quite better distributed and combat worthy. Also we have the problem of concussion that plagued Nelson Class.

Best regards.

[Gary]

I like Nagato.

Good firepower, good protection and decent speed.

Nelson was known as a good ship for a slug out but would struggle to catch an enemy BB.

[Tiornu]

The difference in speed is only about 2 knots.

[marcelo_malara]

I think that with 25 kt Nagato is in the limit of what can be considered an operative battleship by WWII standards. With 23 kt Nelson is badly old-fashioned. Nagato can sail along a cruisering carrier group, albeit at a high speed. Nelson would delay the whole fleet.

[Bgile]

I think someone failed to inform the crew of Warspite that she wasn't "operative". Or West Virginia. Ask their opponents.

[Nellie]

I think someone failed to inform the crew of Warspite that she wasn't "operative". Or West Virginia. Ask their opponents.

Yep! Youre right!!

[Tiornu]

I think we all tend to come to such discussions with an idea in mind of what fleet we're talking about. Is this a fleet that includes carriers like Eagle, Argus, and Hermes? Junyo and Hiyo? Chenango and Sangamon? These are carriers that none of us would chose for our frontline forces, but I believe all of them acted as such at one time or other during the war.
Next, where are we operating our fleet? A lack of speed is not the only thing that slows down a fleet. A lack of range can be even more disabling.
So if you think a ship is too slow or fast enough, you probably have some specific setting in mind.
Of course, I'd rather have a fast, long-ranged ship if history and finances will allow it.