Japanese Invasion US mainland

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jazsa80
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Japanese Invasion US mainland

Post by jazsa80 »

Can anybody think of a hypothetical scenario that could see the Japanese landing troops on the US mainland?

Even if the japanese took out the entire US navy down to the last row boat I just cant see it being possible. Anybody got any ideas?
jonsidneyb
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Re: Japanese Invasion US mainland

Post by jonsidneyb »

I don't think it could be done. I think the civilian population alone would be a tough nut to crack, even with so many serving outside the country. This is an armed socioty.
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minoru genda
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Re: Japanese Invasion US mainland

Post by minoru genda »

Maybe they could get to Alaska taking the Aleutian Islands and jumping from island to island but nothing more.
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Karl Heidenreich
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Re: Japanese Invasion US mainland

Post by Karl Heidenreich »

Have you seen the movie Stephen Spielberg´s "1941" ...
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jazsa80
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Re: Japanese Invasion US mainland

Post by jazsa80 »

No karl, aint seen that movie.

Thinking about it I have come up with a few ideas.

Firstly, Germany would have to victorious in Europe. Either coming to terms with the UK or taking the island and defeating the Soviet Union. The US would need to be under bombardment from V weapons, and maybe bombers from Germany (Jet bombers that were on the drawing boards late war).

Japan would need to have never lost a carrier and have taken care of the US sub menace and be putting merchant hulls in the water as fast as possible. All the new Japanese carriers would need to be in the water (the Taiho's, Shinanos, Amagis etc). China would probably have to be delt with and terms reached between the UK and Japanese.

Jebuz, it would be 47-48 before they could even consider it. Japan would probaly need the entire army that was fighting in China and..... Nope, its just not possible is it.

Anybody know Americas war time population? Im thinking around 180million? Going on that they could probably bring 30-40million men to arms?

So Germany and Japan would have to be fielding huge carrier fleets with a huge merchant support navy. Then somehow land 10million soldiers and keep them supplied to even have a hope inhell of winning.

Can we say with complete certainty that the Invasion and defeat of the US mainland by conventional forces in World War 2 (46-47-48 included) is absolutly impossibe?

I think so anyway.
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Karl Heidenreich
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Re: Japanese Invasion US mainland

Post by Karl Heidenreich »

I believe that aside of the former USSR (from let´s say 1976-1989) or the nowaday ilegal alien "invasion" from Latin America the USA would be imposible to defeat, less to be conquered by any foreign power. The US is just too big to be conquered. You have to fight, asidefrom great distances, large hostile population: the US Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force plus the National Guard of a lot of states, the week end warriors, LAPD, the guys from NRA and all those paramilitary guys that would have such a good time fighting someone.

Being say that the then Japan power was not 1/5 of what´s needed to land in California and overtake it. Not enough transport ships, escorts, troops, tanks, etc. etc. I can´t imagine Patton fighting Yamashita near Santa Monica. Nope, no way...
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
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Re: Japanese Invasion US mainland

Post by Bgile »

I don't think Japan ever had what we think of as Armored Divisions, did they?
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Re: Japanese Invasion US mainland

Post by dunmunro »

Wisely, the USA signed a defense agreement with Canada, obligating the Canadian Army to come to the USA's assistance in the event of an invasion. Doubtless, this was a major deterrent to the Japanese... :wink:
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Re: Japanese Invasion US mainland

Post by jazsa80 »

Dont think the japanese ever organised their armour into divisions as the rest of the the world did.

One possible way I could see it happening is if the Axis controlled the entire world. So Japan, Germany Italy and all the little minor countires vs America+. Maybe if they pulled their resources they could have at least a crack. But I doubt that those countries (especially Japan and Germany) could co-operate to that extent.

The other way I didnt think of before is coming through Mexico from South America. There were some South American countries that would have come over to the Axis side if they were victorious were there not?

Not speaking with any conviction here, just trying to nut out whether it could be done. In terms of military empires throughout history, the US would have to be by far the biggest the world has ever seen.

On a Sci-fi side note: If it turns out there are other worlds out there in the Galaxy, they better not mess with the Human race. Could you imagine the war a united planet earth could wage? You look as stuff like Star Trek and movies like independence day that see these aggresive aliens attacking earth. I think, that if not much changes we will probably be those aggressive aliens!
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minoru genda
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Re: Japanese Invasion US mainland

Post by minoru genda »

Another alternative is the USSR crossing the Bering Strait and invade America from the North. They had millions of troops. They have to establish a foothold in Alaska and from there drive to the south with thousands of tanks. The idea is ridiculous but not as crazy as a Japanese or German Invasion.
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Re: Japanese Invasion US mainland

Post by lwd »

No but close. If you started on Alaska's west coast with say 10,000 tanks you should have a few dozen left when you got to the lower 48 ... as long as no one was shooting at them along the way.
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minoru genda
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Re: Japanese Invasion US mainland

Post by minoru genda »

How is that lwd? Why do you think only a few dozens tanks would be left?
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Re: Japanese Invasion US mainland

Post by lwd »

Have you looked at the terrain and considered the climate and the almost complete lack of roads especialy at the time. From Alaska's west Coast to the Washington boarder by a course with 2 legs that avoids the Pacific is well over 1,000 miles. The Alaskan highway completed in 43 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Highway) ends about 500 miles from the West coast of Alaska and starts well north of the US and is described in the wiki article as just anywhere from just under 1,400 miles to just over 1,500. Here are some quotes:
the "highway" was not usable by general vehicles until 1943. Even then, there were many steep grades, a poor surface, switchbacks to gain and descend hills, and few or no guardrails. Bridges, which progressed during 1942 from pontoon bridges to temporary log bridges, were replaced with steel bridges where necessary only. One old log bridge can still be seen at the Aishihik river crossing.
In particular, some 100 miles (160 km) of route between Burwash Landing and Koidern, Yukon, became virtually impassable in May and June of 1943, as the permafrost melted, no longer protected by a layer of delicate vegetation. A corduroy road was built to restore the route, and corduroy still underlays old sections of highway in the area. .... However, the Burwash-Koidern section is still a problem, as the new highway built there in the late 1990s continues to experience frost heave.
And that's it for major roads. Some towns in Alaska are still not linked to Canada or the US by road.
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Re: Japanese Invasion US mainland

Post by Bgile »

lwd wrote:Have you looked at the terrain and considered the climate and the almost complete lack of roads especialy at the time. From Alaska's west Coast to the Washington boarder by a course with 2 legs that avoids the Pacific is well over 1,000 miles. The Alaskan highway completed in 43 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Highway) ends about 500 miles from the West coast of Alaska and starts well north of the US and is described in the wiki article as just anywhere from just under 1,400 miles to just over 1,500. Here are some quotes:
the "highway" was not usable by general vehicles until 1943. Even then, there were many steep grades, a poor surface, switchbacks to gain and descend hills, and few or no guardrails. Bridges, which progressed during 1942 from pontoon bridges to temporary log bridges, were replaced with steel bridges where necessary only. One old log bridge can still be seen at the Aishihik river crossing.
In particular, some 100 miles (160 km) of route between Burwash Landing and Koidern, Yukon, became virtually impassable in May and June of 1943, as the permafrost melted, no longer protected by a layer of delicate vegetation. A corduroy road was built to restore the route, and corduroy still underlays old sections of highway in the area. .... However, the Burwash-Koidern section is still a problem, as the new highway built there in the late 1990s continues to experience frost heave.
And that's it for major roads. Some towns in Alaska are still not linked to Canada or the US by road.
That may be, but we are talking about T-34s here, which did very well in cold, inhospitable terrain. I'm not arguing one way or the other about the invasion ... just that I don't think the Russians would lose all that much mechanically in Alaska. At least, they were probably the best suited for it in the world at that time.
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Re: Japanese Invasion US mainland

Post by lwd »

When did they ever do a 2,000 mile road march? Most of it not on the road. Through mountains and tundra and primeval forest?

They may have worked well in the cold but consider also that there aren't any spare parts depots or railroad lines to bring in parts or fuel for that matter. The logistics difficulties are mind boggling, I'm sure there's a log manual somewhere that tells what you could expect to support over x number of miles of two lane road. Plug in 2,000 and I'd be surprised if it were more than a handful of tanks.
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