Yamato vs Super Yamato

Historical what if discussions, hypothetical operations, battleship vs. battleship engagements, design your own warship, etc.
BlackBirdZGTR
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Yamato vs Super Yamato

Post by BlackBirdZGTR »

Havent seen this discussion anywhere so i thought i'd bring it up; Which ship would be a superior and which one would win in a battle? Although the Super Yamato were going to have 20 inch guns they were only 6 of them, while the Yamato has 9 18 inch guns, chances are speed would be the same for them along with protection, firing rate might also be a bit different between the two so who knows.

I'd bet on the Yamato winning in a duel, more guns, better odds of hitting something vital.
Bgile
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Re: Yamato vs Super Yamato

Post by Bgile »

Obviously the Japanese didn't agree or they wouldn't have planned to use 20" guns. As far as I'm concerned it belongs to the realm of fantasy.
BlackBirdZGTR
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Re: Yamato vs Super Yamato

Post by BlackBirdZGTR »

Bgile wrote:Obviously the Japanese didn't agree or they wouldn't have planned to use 20" guns. As far as I'm concerned it belongs to the realm of fantasy.
It was in the initial design stages so odds are the end result might be different? Remember one of the first designs for the Yamato was 8, 18 inch guns on 4 twin turrets.
lwd
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Re: Yamato vs Super Yamato

Post by lwd »

As one scales guns up there are a number of factors that become problematic. The US built and tested a couple of 18" guns and concluded they weren't worth it. One of the major problems was the effect of muzzle blast on the ships themselves. The increase is non linear. A 20" gunned ship would likely have a severe problem with it. There's also the recoil shock and scaling to handle the guns and ammo. Given that the 18" was more than adequate vs any likely foes I'm far from convinced that a 20" gunned ship was a good idea. It might also be getting to the point where you would have rate of fire problems. Now with a good blindfire radar (that didn't get taken out by their muzzle blast/shock) the super Yamato might have an edge in a long range engagement. For one thing the splashes would be easier to spot.
Bgile
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Re: Yamato vs Super Yamato

Post by Bgile »

I have an idea for the use of 20" shells against destroyers. Use base fused HC timed to explode 20 feet underwater. If the concussion doesn't cave in the hull, the wave capsizes the target!

Just a silly attempt at humor, so please don't critique it ... the whole idea seems silly to me.
BlackBirdZGTR
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Re: Yamato vs Super Yamato

Post by BlackBirdZGTR »

What would the difficulties be if the idea for a Super Yamato changed to a fast Yamato with the same armament as the original Yamato, but with the capabilities to reach 32-35 knots? What about a Super Yamato with 12 18 inch guns, how much bigger would she need to be to be able to withstand her own guns?
Tiornu
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Re: Yamato vs Super Yamato

Post by Tiornu »

You don't have the option of bulding anything bigger than Yamato since Yamato was about as large a ship as the Japanese could buid. That's why Super-Yamato could carry only six guns. They were looking for improvement without greater tonnage.
I'd rather have Yamato.
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RF
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Re: Yamato vs Super Yamato

Post by RF »

Looking at this, given the early course of WW2, the Japanese might have done better to have considered building not a super Yamato but a big CV instead, possibly a super Shinano.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.
BlackBirdZGTR
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Re: Yamato vs Super Yamato

Post by BlackBirdZGTR »

RF wrote:Looking at this, given the early course of WW2, the Japanese might have done better to have considered building not a super Yamato but a big CV instead, possibly a super Shinano.
The problem with very large CV's with +100 airwings is that it air traffic would become a nightmare. The US had this problem with the Midway class carriers post war; Japan or anyone actually would just be better off having 2-3 Shokaku class carriers as opposed to 1 super carrier.
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RF
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Re: Yamato vs Super Yamato

Post by RF »

But even two to three extra carriers would have been the better strategy, along with the extra planes and pilots to fly them...
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.
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Jason01
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Re: Yamato vs Super Yamato

Post by Jason01 »

Tiornu wrote:You don't have the option of bulding anything bigger than Yamato since Yamato was about as large a ship as the Japanese could buid. That's why Super-Yamato could carry only six guns. They were looking for improvement without greater tonnage.
I'd rather have Yamato.
The Yamato had 9 18 in. and the Super Yamato had 6 20 in.
I really don't see much of an improvement. It's just heavier guns but less.
The broadside for the Super Yamato would have been 1362 tns while the broadside weight of Yamato would have been 1461.6 tns.
(from Combinedfleet.com and wikipedia.org)
Keith Enge
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Re: Yamato vs Super Yamato

Post by Keith Enge »

I agree - eight 460mm versus six 508mm is basically a wash. The super Yamato's real gunnery advantage is in her tertiaries. She has the very good 100mm guns rather than the quite mediocre 127mm guns of the Yamato. Her only other advantage besides a somewhat higher displacement is that she would have had a better armor supporting structure - some of the armor connections on Yamato had known flaws.
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