Bismarck vs. HMS Warspite + HMS Exeter

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miro777
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Bismarck vs. HMS Warspite + HMS Exeter

Postby miro777 » Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:59 pm

hey
i wondered wat would have happened if the Bismarck would have met the HMS Warpite and the HMS Exceter.
If we would say the Exceter would have hit her in the boiler room or so and so that Bsiamcrk can't run for it,
how would the battle end?
Lets say that the Bismarck still manages 28kn.

adios
miro
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marcelo_malara
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Postby marcelo_malara » Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:20 pm

The Bismarck would easily sink both ships. Warspite is not match for her, neither in armour nor in speed, and Exeter´s 8" guns has no chance of reaching the boilers.

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miro777
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Postby miro777 » Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:29 pm

hey
but wat about if Exceter comes in torpedo range and so the Bismarck has to give ehr some notice and shoot at her as well, and then the Warspite closes up and with her 8x15in guns hits Bismarck!

adios
miro
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Postby Karl Heidenreich » Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:40 pm

Miro,

The Bismarck, even with the hypothetical damage would always win. Just see the Graf Spee and what she did on Exeter with her 11" guns. Now, Bismarck with her 15" L/47 and top of the art (1941) technology. No way, Bismarck would had walked calm and free.

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Postby miro777 » Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:47 pm

hey
you guys forget the WARPITE!!!!
wat could she do to the Bismarck with her 15in guns?

miro
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marcelo_malara
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Postby marcelo_malara » Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:00 pm

Look for the protection figures of Warspite. She is pretty much as Hood. May be she hits Bismarck and does a little damage, but Bismarck´s shells will surely doom Warspite.

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Postby miro777 » Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:32 pm

hey
hmmmm yes ur arguments seem reasonable
so the Bismarck could finish off two RN ships

now wat if we increase the British side by another BB.
Lets again take an old one.

The Queen Elizabeth + Warspite + Exceter
vs.
Bismarck alone

now will the RN win?

adios
miro
Die See ruft....

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Postby Bgile » Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:45 pm

I think that if Bismarck accepted combat with Warspite she could lose. Bismarck has a big advantage, but one lucky hit ...

The two ships have similar main armament and Warspite, who's guns are more powerful than PoW's, can definitely hurt Bismarck. Bismarck's speed is only important in deciding whether she accepts combat or not - it doesn't give an advantage once the battle begins.

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Postby marcelo_malara » Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:24 pm

The fighting will be very much as the Denmark Strait, except for the 15" in place of the 14". Bismarck´s much higher speed will allow her to reach the most favourable position. Besides, look for the damage that Warspite received in Jutland just by 11" and 12" shells, imagine what the 15" will do...

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Postby Bgile » Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:47 pm

marcelo_malara wrote:The fighting will be very much as the Denmark Strait, except for the 15" in place of the 14". Bismarck´s much higher speed will allow her to reach the most favourable position. Besides, look for the damage that Warspite received in Jutland just by 11" and 12" shells, imagine what the 15" will do...


Just what favorable position are you referring to? If one ship can shoot at the other then the reverse is true also. It's hard to imagine how one would define a favorable postion in this situation.

At Jutland Warspite was fired on by a number of German ships at once and she held up quite well, thank you very much! It was a demonstration of the marked superiority of that ship and her firepower over the German contemporaries. IIRC her main battery remained intact thoughout, as did her powerplant. Wasn't the damage mainly superficial and didn't really effect her fighting ability?

I don't want to imply this would be a fight between equals, but I also don't want people to think that Warspite was some defenseless relic. IIRC she hit a modern Italian BB at 25kyds range in the Med. Ask them if she was ineffective!

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Postby marcelo_malara » Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:02 pm

Just what favorable position are you referring to? If one ship can shoot at the other then the reverse is true also. It's hard to imagine how one would define a favorable postion in this situation.

May be she can manouver in a way that the two battleships masked each others fire, may be she can reach a position to engage on ship alone and then the other.

At Jutland Warspite was fired on by a number of German ships at once and she held up quite well, thank you very much! It was a demonstration of the marked superiority of that ship and her firepower over the German contemporaries. IIRC her main battery remained intact thoughout, as did her powerplant. Wasn't the damage mainly superficial and didn't really effect her fighting ability?

Sorry, but Warspite had to withdraw from the action at 1900 because of damage to the steering gear and her speed reduced to 16 kt by flooding.
Besides she has a gun out of action by a 5.9" impact in the barrel and many secondary 6" guns out of action because of 11" and 12" impacts in the battery. A turret roof was holed by an impact, which a 15" would surely had penetrated. And all this by 893 lb 12" and 666 lb 11" shells.
Imagine the damage the 1764 lb 15" shells would do.

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Postby Bgile » Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:45 am

marcelo_malara wrote:May be she can manouver in a way that the two battleships masked each others fire, may be she can reach a position to engage on ship alone and then the other.


I can't imagine how, barring absolute incompetance on the part of her enemy. All the British have to do is maneuver independently and turn when necessary to keep all guns on the target. Bismarck's speed isn't going to help much at all.

Sorry - you have the better of me wrt Jutland. I didn't remember that she was that heavily damaged. However, if Bismarck had received that kind of a pummeling she would have been heavily damaged also.

Please - I'm not implying they are in any way equal. Just that it might not be as one-sided as you imply. I might even go so far as to argue that USS Tennessee, with her more powerful 14" battery might have done better than PoW, especially after her post-Pearl Harbor reconstruction.

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Postby marcelo_malara » Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:35 pm

I was not implying either that it would be one sided. Bismarck would surely be damaged, but surely too both British battleships would be sunk (remember that their speed would prevent them running away).
Moreover, Warspite hadn´t any gunnery control radar until the end of 1941 when Type 284 was installed. But Bismarck had her FuMO23 radio rangefinder right from the begining.

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Re: Bismarck vs. HMS Warspite + HMS Exeter

Postby RF » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:48 am

miro777 wrote:hey
i wondered wat would have happened if the Bismarck would have met the HMS Warpite and the HMS Exeter.


adios
miro



Hi miro,

I can understand your choice of Warspite as her main armament is so similar to Bismarck, but why pick Exeter as your cruiser? If your intention was a heavy cruiser there are better choices that could be made.

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Postby miro777 » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:39 pm

hey....
i actually don't know why i chose the Exceter...
it was a long time ago, i posted that...
the reason may have been, that the Bismarck could not have run away, but im not sure why exactly Exceter...:think:


miro
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