Best WW2 heavy cruiser = Prinz Eugen ?

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alecsandros
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Best WW2 heavy cruiser = Prinz Eugen ?

Postby alecsandros » Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:11 pm

Hello guys,

These days, thinking about Bismarck and Prinz Eugen, I started looking closer into the details of contemporary heavy cruisers.

It was a surprise to me that Prinz Eugen was the largest heavy cruiser from the entire war (larger than Baltimore class, Myoko, Tone, Zara, and even larger than Admiral Graf Spee)
In fact, at 14500tons standard and 18800tons full load, and 208meters long, Prinz Eugen was close to the dimensions of a WW1 pre-dreadnoght.

My impression is that, at least until 1943 (when the Baltimores were introduced into service), the Admiral Hipper class was the most powerfull heavy cruiser class produced all over the world. That is, on a one-on-one basis, these ships would probably came out on top, in most situations, against any contemporary opponent of their class.

This would be mostly due to their excellent artillery, and somewhat due to their size and overall protection.

What do you think ?

ede144
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Re: Best WW2 heavy cruiser = Prinz Eugen ?

Postby ede144 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:05 pm

Alexandria
I'm sure you made some new friends on the other side of the Atlantic. Usual comments from there are: oversized, short legged and not designed for it's purpose commerce raiding.
IMNHO it was a fast and well shooting man of war. It could not play it's role because the other assets of KM were not built

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Rick Rather
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Re: Best WW2 heavy cruiser = Prinz Eugen ?

Postby Rick Rather » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:54 am

The US Navy crew that sailed Prinz Eugen to Bikini Atoll thought she was wonderful. Some thought we should keep her instead of using her for the tests.
Just because it's stupid, futile and doomed to failure, that doesn't mean some officer won't try it.
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Rick Rather
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Re: Best WW2 heavy cruiser = Prinz Eugen ?

Postby Rick Rather » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:56 am

Btw, why is this thread in "Hypothetical Naval Scenarios"?
Just because it's stupid, futile and doomed to failure, that doesn't mean some officer won't try it.
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Re: Best WW2 heavy cruiser = Prinz Eugen ?

Postby ede144 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:52 am

Rick Rather wrote:The US Navy crew that sailed Prinz Eugen to Bikini Atoll thought she was wonderful. Some thought we should keep her instead of using her for the tests.


Epecially as it shooting outclassed the USS Houston. Paul Schmalenbach did mention it in his book: "test shooting commenced after 6 salvos with the forward turret group, because target was not visible anymore"

OTOH it was the most modern ship taking part on operation cross road if you look at it's production techniques.

ede144
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Re: Best WW2 heavy cruiser = Prinz Eugen ?

Postby ede144 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:55 am

@Alexandros

sorry for address you as Alexandria. Sometimes my mobile want to be clever and changes wording unexpected.

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Re: Best WW2 heavy cruiser = Prinz Eugen ?

Postby alecsandros » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:43 am

Rick Rather wrote:Btw, why is this thread in "Hypothetical Naval Scenarios"?

Well, I don't know :)
I didn't know were to put it,
and maybe some comparisons and scenarios of duels with other cruisers would appear....

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Re: Best WW2 heavy cruiser = Prinz Eugen ?

Postby alecsandros » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:44 am

ede144 wrote:
Epecially as it shooting outclassed the USS Houston. Paul Schmalenbach did mention it in his book: "test shooting commenced after 6 salvos with the forward turret group, because target was not visible anymore"


Any more info on this ?

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Re: Best WW2 heavy cruiser = Prinz Eugen ?

Postby alecsandros » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:45 am

ede144 wrote:@Alexandros

sorry for address you as Alexandria. Sometimes my mobile want to be clever and changes wording unexpected.

No problem, it happens :)

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Ersatz Yorck
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Re: Best WW2 heavy cruiser = Prinz Eugen ?

Postby Ersatz Yorck » Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:04 pm

The Hipper class in general seems rather large for their fighting capability. Granted, they had excellent artillery and fire control, but at more than 1.5 times the displacement of a County class, they do seem large and expensive in comparison. The Hipper class also had extremely unreliable machinery. Perhaps they were better than other cruisers on those days when the machinery worked...?

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Re: Best WW2 heavy cruiser = Prinz Eugen ?

Postby culverin » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:23 pm

The 13 ships of the RN & RAN collectively known as the County classes have my vote.
3 losses, all in 1942 in Eastern waters, with arduous service Worldwide firmly places these well armed, seaworthy ships at the top of the pile.
Only in recent years have their true worth come to be accepted. With their peculiar 3 funneled high freeboard appearance, a design formulated in the early 1920's could never achieve anything in a World conflict 20 years later.
History records otherwise, including their vital contribution to the pursuit of the Bismarck.
A full broadside. The traditional English salute.
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Re: Best WW2 heavy cruiser = Prinz Eugen ?

Postby RNfanDan » Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:33 pm

culverin wrote:The 13 ships of the RN & RAN collectively known as the County classes have my vote.
3 losses, all in 1942 in Eastern waters, with arduous service Worldwide firmly places these well armed, seaworthy ships at the top of the pile.


And a fairly short pile, at that! Sir Eustace Tennyson D'Eyncourt drew up a real winner.

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Re: Best WW2 heavy cruiser = Prinz Eugen ?

Postby ede144 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:55 pm

alecsandros wrote:
ede144 wrote:
Epecially as it shooting outclassed the USS Houston. Paul Schmalenbach did mention it in his book: "test shooting commenced after 6 salvos with the forward turret group, because target was not visible anymore"


Any more info on this ?


I once red about it on a page in the web. Unfortunately I can't track it down. Probably Ulrich Rudowski does know more.
So I have my German copy for reverence only.

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Re: Best WW2 heavy cruiser = Prinz Eugen ?

Postby ede144 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:59 pm

Ersatz Yorck wrote:The Hipper class in general seems rather large for their fighting capability. Granted, they had excellent artillery and fire control, but at more than 1.5 times the displacement of a County class, they do seem large and expensive in comparison. The Hipper class also had extremely unreliable machinery. Perhaps they were better than other cruisers on those days when the machinery worked...?


You are the head of a small navy. Your political leader tells you: "Ok I give you 8 years to ramp up to 35% of the RN. Than you have to expect a new war." Your shippbuilding capacity is sufficient for half of the required numbers. What are you going to do? You are bound to the same classes of ships as the RN.

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Re: Best WW2 heavy cruiser = Prinz Eugen ?

Postby paul.mercer » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:02 pm

Gentlemen,
I don't know if she was the best heavy cruiser of WW2 but I do think she was the best looking!


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