Re: Best WW2 heavy cruiser = Prinz Eugen ?
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:20 pm
I repeat the warhead of a G7(...) typically did not detonate even when hit directly by a detonating HE shell.
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I get that. Why the repeat?I repeat the warhead of a G7(...) typically did not detonate even when hit directly by a detonating HE shell.
That is true, but when it happened in the actual case it had much the same effect in that it resulted in loss of the ship.Garyt wrote:The Long Lance was an excellent torpedo, but on a Heavy Cruiser at least something more along the line of the above might have made more sense for the Japanese.the problem is, that Schießwolle 36 was (almost)completely insensitive for even direct hits and detonation of 20,3 cm HE-shells.
Just thought I'd add while a hit to the torpedoes can be devastating, it's not quite the same as a magazine detonation. I'd compare a magazine hit to a penetrating round, and compare an on deck torpedo detonation to a non penetrating round.
Seems they were usually immobilized or close to it after this, and later scuttled.That is true, but when it happened in the actual case it had much the same effect in that it resulted in loss of the ship.
... You get to hit targets moving at 29kts at 20km distance, thanks to the 34km range of the main battery, and battleship-level redundancy and battery-stability systems, ensuring a longer survivability in combat. You also get more flotability and thus more resilience in combat.slaterat wrote:So for a 66 percnt increase in tonnage what do you really get with the PE ?
Slaterat
And that's it? Two instances of good gunnery? What about power plant reliability? Secondary battery? Aircraft arrangements in the dangerous central location where they are an extreme fire hazard? AA capability? I don't see why flotation would be any better than other ships of the same size. How about secondary power generation in locations separate from and not reliant on the boilers as with widely separated diesel generators? How about split power plants? How would it do trying to operate for many months away from any yard availability like US and British cruisers did, while covering thousands of miles of ocean, much of it at high speed while operating with carriers? How were it's underway replenishment arrangements for fuel and stores?alecsandros wrote: I do not know of any other WW2 cruisers obtaining hits in the conditions and in the ranges that Prinz Eugen and Hipper managed to do (Achates sunk at 18km through snowstorm and Hood struck at 20km).
They still took a great deal of interest in it when it fell into their hands at the end of WW2.Steve Crandell wrote: I don't think Prinz Eugen would be very useful to the USN. It was probably pretty efficient at running out of port for a short time threatening convoys and then returning.
Absolutely. It had a very interesting sonar and the fire control system was definitely worth studying. That in no way makes it the best heavy cruiser of the war, however. There is a lot more to a heavy cruiser than sonar and FC, and I don't think the latter was significantly better than what the US had then. I served on submarines with the same type of sonar though, several technical generations down the road.RF wrote:They still took a great deal of interest in it when it fell into their hands at the end of WW2.Steve Crandell wrote: I don't think Prinz Eugen would be very useful to the USN. It was probably pretty efficient at running out of port for a short time threatening convoys and then returning.
Point taken,Byron Angel wrote:Japanese cruisers at the Battle of the Komandorskis scored several hits at +/- 20,000 yards under difficult gunnery conditions.
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They were all rather bad... The point I was trying to make was that they had the upper hand in a 1 cruiser vs 1 cruiser scenario...Steve Crandell wrote: What about power plant reliability? Secondary battery? Aircraft arrangements in the dangerous central location where they are an extreme fire hazard? AA capability?
... Not better than other ships of the same size, but better then contempoary heavy cruisers, which were 50% smaller.I don't see why flotation would be any better than other ships of the same size.
Most likely so.I don't think Prinz Eugen would be very useful to the USN. It was probably pretty efficient at running out of port for a short time threatening convoys and then returning.
Until Antonio revised the timings for the DS battle after the destruction of Hood I had found the Prinz Eugen hit rate against POW rather curious - only three hits against Bismarck's four, yet having fired on POW for longer and with a faster rate of fire, whereas against Hood the Eugen, until switching its fire to POW, had matched/exceeded Bismarck's hitting rate over time.alecsandros wrote: ..... Prinz Eugen hit Hood rapidly and kept hiting her and Prince of Wales at Denmark Strait.
Indeed,RF wrote:alecsandros wrote: With the much shorter time period to the POW breaking off the action, the disparity of hits against POW does make more sense - three hits in say three or four minutes seems more likely than only three hits in nearly fifteen minutes. The latter isn't really good shooting....