Mostlyharmless wrote:Garyt wrote:Yamato had an auxiliary rudder, but in testing it wasn't able to turn the ship.
Funny how much luck plays a role. Between them the Yamato and Musahi were hit by 30 or so torpedoes - and not one to my knowledge took the rudder out.
During her final sortie, Yamato suffered a torpedo hit or hits aft which flooded the auxiliary rudder steering room. The auxiliary rudder was stuck hard to port so that the ship could no longer make turns to starboard.
Paul L wrote:OK for comparison here would be the Bismarck with 1/3 less armor....essentially a Scharnhorst BB with 6 x 15" guns and an armor base around 14kt much like the Twins.
RF wrote:Paul L wrote:OK for comparison here would be the Bismarck with 1/3 less armor....essentially a Scharnhorst BB with 6 x 15" guns and an armor base around 14kt much like the Twins.
Then the consideration could be extended to building three ships of this class rather than two.
Another point from the analysis here - why not build more panzerschiffe rather than Hipper class cruisers?
Paul L wrote:A very confusing mess.
Paul L wrote: Some one even uncovered a document that insists that the Bismarck is committed to 8 x 14" guns as of April 1935 [15 months before keel laid down] , when no such gun existed or was planed for, and yet 15" and 16" guns were already designed for warships that hadn't even been planned for.
RF wrote:Fortunately for mankind dictators and melogomaniacs tend to be pretty thick.
Thoddy wrote:acccording to Bagnasco, main rudder was jamed in Vitorio Veneto by the explosion
did you have an transversal drawing of rudderequipment (rudders and machinery)
Dave Saxton wrote:Paul L wrote: Some one even uncovered a document that insists that the Bismarck is committed to 8 x 14" guns as of April 1935 [15 months before keel laid down] , when no such gun existed or was planed for, and yet 15" and 16" guns were already designed for warships that hadn't even been planned for.
Beyer compiled the documents revealing the design history of the Bismarck class in his 1991 Bismarck 50th anniversary book. The Bismarck was indeed originally envisioned with the Krupp 35cm/L54 gun. 35cm =13.8". The 35cm, 38cm, and 40.6cm were all designed by Krupp at the same time. Tests revealed the 35cm could defeat the Dunkerque's sloped belt all the way out to 34km. But the 38cm/L52 tested even better and the 40.6cm not much better than that.
Why wasn't Scharnhorst and Gneisenau equipped with the 35cm instead of 28cm? The answer lies with the fact that 38cm twin mount is about the same size and weight as the 28cm triple.
Paul L wrote:Also when you say 35cm was tested against Dunkerque's armor, How was that done without a 14" gun?
Mostlyharmless wrote:One of the most “possible” improvements to Bismarck would have been to add a lower belt. If we imagine adding a duplicate of the upper belt below the main belt, we know it would cost about 1,000 tons. I can imagine that replacing Bismarck's 150 mm and 105 mm batteries by King George V's 5.25 inch battery would save about the same weight.
I am not sure if a 145 mm belt would have stopped the hit from Prince of Wales. If it hit Bismarck about 2,5 metres below the waterline, the shell must have travelled at least 8 metres through the water and possibly more as shells tend to deflect upwards. Thus PoW's shell must have travelled 22-25 calibres underwater unless the waves were very helpful. The Japanese Type 91 shells only lost half their velocity over 100 calibres. However, the RN shell may have been yawed more than a Type 91 and may have lost velocity more rapidly. In conclusion, we have a possibly strongly yawed shell hitting a 145 mm plate at 30-40 degrees and at 350-400 metres per second.
The second hit struck beneath the armored belt along side compartment XIV and exploded against the torpedo bulkhead. It caused flooding in the forward port generator room and power station number 4, and shattered bulkheads between that room and the two adjacent ones, the port number 2 boiler room and the auxiliary boiler room. Later it was discovered that this hit had ripped up several fuel tanks in the storage and double bottom...the damage repair parties stuffed the shattered bulkheads in the port number 2 boiler room and the auxiliary boiler room with hammocks...
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