Fast Battleship League Table

Historical what if discussions, hypothetical operations, battleship vs. battleship engagements, design your own warship, etc.
fsimon
Senior Member
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:29 pm
Location: Rostock, Germany

Fast Battleship League Table

Post by fsimon »

Call me silly...
Each ship vs. each ship, purely one vs. one, all other forces are busy with each other.
Both commanders engage with the intent to sink the opponent.
Tactical and intelligence situations are assumed to be even.
The encounters start head-on. Both combatants will thereafter steer to 30° inclination angling towards the opponent on a collision course, only starting to chase salvos, when opposing fire becomes too dangerous.
2 duels for each pairing:
A: clear day encounter at the first possible time both ships were combat ready in WW2
• Open fire acc. doctrine
B: stormy and rainy night at the last operational time for both ships in WW2
• Open fire at max. blind fire / radar spotting range
3 points for a win
1 point for a draw

The contenders:
Yamato
Iowa
Bismarck / Tirpitz
King George V
North Carolina
South Dakota
Richelieu
Littorio
fsimon
Senior Member
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:29 pm
Location: Rostock, Germany

First A duel: Littorio vs. Richelieu

Post by fsimon »

August 1940 Mediterranean Sea, daytime, clear weather:
Top Spot / Director Range Finders:
Littorio: 12m wide, 25 times magnification = accuracy @25km = 36.375/300 =~121m
Richelieu: 14m wide, 25 times magnification = accuracy @25km = 36.375/350 =~104m

Gun accuracy @ 25km:
Littorio:
True Mean Dispersion (TMD): 186m
Average range pattern @ 25km
9guns: 186m x 4 = 744m
3guns: 186m x 2.89 = 538m

Richelieu:
True Mean Dispersion (TMD): 313m
Average range pattern:
8guns: 313m x 3.85 = 1205m
4guns: 313m x 2.89 = 905m

Danger Zones @ 25km:
Littorio’s guns Angle of Fall @ 25km = 20.3° Danger zone vs. Richelieu 10m high 30m beam = 57m
Richelieu’ guns Angle of Fall @ 25km = 22.4° Danger zone vs. Littorio 10m high 30m beam = 53m

Hitting space in relation to True mean dispersion and average ranging error = X:
DZ / (TMD+RE) = X
Littorio: X = 25.8%
Richelieu: X = 18.3%

Projectile times of flight @ 25km:
Littorio: 30s
Richelieu: 31s

Hit probability with respect to errors accumulating during time of flight:
X / ¼ ToF = Hp
Littorio: Hp = 3.44%
Richelieu: Hp = 2.36%

Initial rate of fire to find the range (IF):
i.e. 60s / (ToF + 20s observation + correction time) x no of guns -10% for expected output misses:
Littorio: 9.72 shots per min
Richelieu: 8.47 shots per min

Rapid fire once range is found (RF):
Littorio: 10.53 shots per min (acc. navweaps 1.3 rpmpg x 9 guns -10% output loss)
Richelieu: 9.58 shots per min (acc. navweaps 1.33 rpmpg x 8 guns -10% output loss)

Average rate (AR) of fire (middle of IF and RF):
Littorio: 10.13 shots per min
Richelieu: 9.03 shots per min

Expected hits per 10 min:
i.e. Hp x AR x 10
Littorio: 3.48 hits per 10 min
Richelieu: 2.13 hits per 10 min

So: Littorio would probably hit more often than Richelieu. But…

Explosives effects on TGT:
i.e. Explosive filler of Armor Piercing Round times hits divided by 2 (I expect 50% duds):
Littorio: 10.16kg x 3.48/ 2 = 17.7kg
Richelieu: 21.9kg x 2.13 / 2 = 23.3kg

So: Despite hitting less often than Littorio, Richelieu would get more explosive and splinter effect on Littorio.

Belt Penetration @ broadside:
Littorio could penetrate Richelieu’s belt (327 + 50 @ 35°~ 400mm) @ ~22km
(409mm acc Common Ground …)
Richelieu could penetrate Littorio’s belt (70+280+36@-15°+24mm@+26° = ~420mm) @ ~19 km
(421mm acc Common Ground…)
However, both would plan to angle their ship towards incoming fire, thus increasing hitting angles / obliquity and so increasing armor resistance. Such a 30° inclination plus a belt-incline-angle of 15° plus angle of fall of 15° give a compound angle of ~41°. With slightly overmatched projectiles (i.e. 38cm projectile v. 327mm armor) a 40° angle increases face hardened armor resistance by ~40%, not counting additional detrimental factors for penetration. Maximum battle range at which belt penetration could be achieved would be decreased by roughly 30%.
Belt penetration @ 30° inclination:
Littorio could penetrate Richelieu @ ~15km
Richelieu could penetrate Littorio @ ~13km

Summary:
Richelieu could probably get a slightly more accurate range and range rate due to the larger rangefinder and so could get the correct range also a little bit earlier.
Littorio had a better gun dispersion and slightly flatter trajectory resulting in a slightly better danger zone. Littorio had one more gun and would likely land more hits in a given time.
Richelieu would land less hits, but despite this, her hits would have more explosive and splinter effects.
Littorio was slightly better armored and had slightly better penetration power. So, Littorio was probably slightly more likely to land a crippling or even catastrophic hit on Richelieu (roughly 15km to 13km) in favor of Littorio.

I would like to call this a win for Littorio mostly due to the excessive spread of Richelieu’s guns resulting in fewer hits.
Littorio 3 pts
Richelieu 0 pts
Comments and corrections please! (Especially for the 30° inclination belt penetrations. I am vague on this.)

Best regards
Frank
Thorsten Wahl
Senior Member
Posts: 922
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:17 pm

Re: Fast Battleship League Table

Post by Thorsten Wahl »

with regard to Littorio class there are abnormalities that has to be solved:

1) penetratation of AP shell versus vertical armour
according (Direttive e norme per l'impiego della Squadra Navale)
.........italian 381 mm AP shell penetration figures compared with german 38 cm

19 km....416mm.............................................................430 mm(heil condition)
20 km....402mm.............................................................412 mm(heil condition)
24 km....348mm.............................................................350 mm(heil condition)
26 km....325mm.............................................................320 mm(heil condition)
despite the italian guns has a higher initial velocity and a heavier shell the german gun appears as a the better penetrator.
(penetration of vertical homogenous armour plate was unobtrusive)


2)the replica of the Italian armor scheme(decapping plate + fh main armour) according british ballistics tests doesnt show an advantage to a single FH plate of same total thickness(350 mm) versus the british 14" AP-shell. the british shell penetrated the scheme and did not break up.
-Maybe the distance between foreplate and main plate was to small.
-or as the filler between foreplate and main plate was omitted in the british test was this the reason of the failure of the test?

The british tests were by no means systematic:
-they did not check the necessary thickness of the forplate for ensuring decapping/break up of armour piercing cap)
-they did not check the required gap for ensuring decapping)
-they did not check the required thickness of the main FH-armour to ensure breakup of decapped shot.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the ballistic effect of the splinter turtle deck at the french ship is practically negligible.
Its thickness is so low and itsa orientation to steep, it can be penetrated by an armour piercing shell at a velocity slightly above 60m/s practically at any angle and projectile orientation.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The planned opposite approach courses ensure very high approach speeds. This leads to the question: wich vertical scheme fails first?
Meine Herren, es kann ein siebenjähriger, es kann ein dreißigjähriger Krieg werden – und wehe dem, der zuerst die Lunte in das Pulverfaß schleudert!
fsimon
Senior Member
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:29 pm
Location: Rostock, Germany

Re: Fast Battleship League Table

Post by fsimon »

Thank you Thorsten!
You seem to agree with the result, confirm?!
Sorry, the approach I described was misleading. What I meant to descibe is more like the intercept of Hood on Bismarck, just not so steep.
Like this:
Collision Course.jpg
(9.37 KiB) Not downloaded yet
fsimon
Senior Member
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:29 pm
Location: Rostock, Germany

Littorio 2:1 Richelieu

Post by fsimon »

1. Hits: Littorio 3.48 : 2.17 Richelieu
2. Explosives: Littorio 17.7kg : 23.3kg Richelieu
3. Belt pen: Littorio 15km : 13km Richelieu

Littorio 2:1 Richelieu

The above figures were calculated for 20km range as opposed to 25km as posted in the initial post above. Only TMD and Danger Zone were for 25km while already time of flight was for 20km and not for 25km. I apologize.
fsimon
Senior Member
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:29 pm
Location: Rostock, Germany

Littorio vs. Richelieu at night

Post by fsimon »

B duel:
Littorio vs. Richelieu
October 1943 Mediterranean Sea, night time, visibility 20km, intermittent visibility in rainsqualls 5km

Both ships could track each other with search radars (EC-3 ter Gufo on Littorio and the American SF surface search radar on Richelieu).
Since both ships had no fire control radar implemented by this time, but only search radar with poor accuracy and resolution, both ships would have been reliant on the use of star shells and possibly search lights. Their main fire control would have been based on the optical systems and thus no big change in consequences as per day. Battle ranges would have been shorter and closer to the decisive range where crippling or catastrophic hits could happen.
I see basically the same outcome at night:

1. Hits: Littorio 3.48 : 2.17 Richelieu
2. Explosives: Littorio 17.7kg : 23.3kg Richelieu
3. Belt pen: Littorio 15km : 13km Richelieu

Littorio 2:1 Richelieu
fsimon
Senior Member
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:29 pm
Location: Rostock, Germany

Littorio vs. KGV at daytime Jan 41

Post by fsimon »

January 1941 Mediterranean Sea, daytime, clear weather:

Top Spot / Director Range Finders:
Littorio: 12m wide, 25 times magnification = accuracy @20km = ~116m
KGV: 15ft wide, 25 times magnification = accuracy @20km = ~306m
KGV Turret range finder: 41ft, 25 times magnification = accuracy @20km =~112m
KGV type 284 radar accuracy @20km: 110m

Gun accuracy @ 20km:
Littorio:
True Mean Dispersion (TMD): 148m
Average range pattern @ 20km
9guns: 148m x 4 = 592m
3guns: 148m x 2.89 = 360m
(Vittorio Veneto had a distinct larger dispersion with 196m TMD @ 20km)

KGV:
True Mean Dispersion (TMD): 113m
Average range pattern:
10guns: 113m x 3.85 = 468m
5guns: 113m x 2.89 = 363m

Danger Zones @ 20km:
Littorio’s guns Angle of Fall @ 20km = 14.1° Danger zone vs. KGV 10m high 30m beam = 68m
KGV’s guns Angle of Fall @ 20km = 19.6° Danger zone vs. Littorio 10m high 30m beam = 58m

Hitting space in relation to True mean dispersion and average ranging error = X:
DZ / (TMD+RE) = X
Littorio: X = 25.8%
KGV: X = 26%

Projectile times of flight @ 20km:
Littorio: 30s
KGV: 35s

Hit probability with respect to errors accumulating during time of flight:
X / ¼ ToF = Hp
Littorio: Hp = 3.44%
KGV: Hp = 2.97%

Initial rate of fire to find the range (IF):
i.e. 60s / (ToF + 20s observation + correction time) x no of guns -10% for expected output misses:
Littorio: 9.72 shots per min
KGV: 9.82 shots per min

Average rate (AR) of fire:
Littorio: 10.13 shots per min
KGV: 10.17 shots per min

Expected hits per 10 min:
i.e. Hp x AR x 10
Littorio: 3.48 hits per 10 min
KGV: 3.02 hits per 10 min

One would expect that Littorio would hit less often due to the larger dispersion, but the flatter trajectory results in a larger danger space and the shorter time of flight allows for a higher rate of fire when spotting and reduces prediction error-accumulation during time of flight.

Explosives effects on TGT:
i.e. Explosive filler of Armor Piercing Round times hits divided by 2 (I expect 50% duds):
Littorio: 10.16kg x 3.48/ 2 = 17.7kg
KGV: 18.1kg x 3.02 / 2 = 27.3kg

Like with Richelieu, while Littorio would probably hit ever so slightly more often, KGV would achieve more explosive and splinter effect on Littorio.

Belt Penetration @ broadside:
Littorio could penetrate KGV’s belt (374/350mm) @ ~24/26km (381/355mm acc Common Ground …)
or ~22km acc. Direttive e norme per l'impiego della Squadra Navale provided by Thorsten
KGV could penetrate Littorio’s belt (70+280+36@-15°+24mm@+26° = ~420mm) @ ~12 km (427mm acc Common Ground…)


However, both would plan to angle their ship towards incoming fire, thus increasing hitting angles / obliquity and so increasing armor resistance. Such a 30° inclination would decrease maximum battle range at which belt penetration could be achieved by roughly 30%.

Belt penetration @ 30° inclination:
Littorio could penetrate KGV @ ~17-18km / ~15km acc Direttive e norme per l'impiego della Squadra Navale
KGV could penetrate Littorio @ ~8km

Summary:
1. Hits: Littorio 3.48 : 3.02 KGV
2. Explosives: Littorio 17.7kg : 27.3kg KGV
3. Belt pen: Littorio 17.5 / 15km : 8km KGV

Littorio 2:1 KGV
fsimon
Senior Member
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:29 pm
Location: Rostock, Germany

Littorio vs. KGV at night

Post by fsimon »

July 1943 Mediterranean Sea, night time, visibility 20km, intermittent visibility in rainsqualls 5km

Ranging:
Littorio: EC-3 ter Gufo = 150m
Littorio: 12m wide, 25 times magnification = accuracy @20km = ~116m (star shell required)
KGV: 284M3/P: 23m

So, in 1943 KGV has a clear advantage in getting the correct range while all other factors like TMD and Danger Zone remain the same. This will lead to a increased hit probability.

Hitting space in relation to True mean dispersion and average ranging error = X:
DZ / (TMD+RE) = X
Littorio: X = 25.8%
KGV: X = 42.6%

Hit probability with respect to errors accumulating during time of flight:
X / ¼ ToF = Hp
Littorio: Hp = 3.44%
KGV: Hp = 4.87%

Expected hits per 10 min:
i.e. Hp x AR x 10
Littorio: 3.48 hits per 10 min
KGV: 4.95 hits per 10 min

Explosives effects on TGT:
i.e. Explosive filler of Armor Piercing Round times hits divided by 2 (I expect 50% duds):
Littorio: 10.16kg x 3.48/ 2 = 17.7kg
KGV: 18.1kg x 4.95 / 2 = 89.6kg

While Littorio’s advantage in belt penetration remains, KGV now has a big advantage in likely hitting decisively more often and destroying battle critical components on Littorio, like range finders, turrets, command positions and unarmored or weakly armored hull sections. Thus KGV could render Littorio impotent of hitting back by the time the critical range of 17km would be reached. But KGV should not move broadside to Littorio for long since the extremely powerful Italian guns could then punch through KGV’s belt even outside of 20km.

Summary:
1. Hits: Littorio 3.48 : 4.95 KGV
2. Explosives: Littorio 17.7kg : 89.6kg KGV
3. Belt pen: Littorio 17.5km : 8km KGV

Littorio 1:2 KGV
fsimon
Senior Member
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:29 pm
Location: Rostock, Germany

Richelieu vs. KGV at daytime

Post by fsimon »

November 1940 daytime, clear weather:

Top Spot / Director Range Finders:
Richelieu: 14m wide, 25 times magnification = accuracy @20km = ~100m
KGV: 15ft wide, 25 times magnification = accuracy @20km = ~306m
KGV Turret range finder: 41ft, 25 times magnification = accuracy @20km =~112m

Gun accuracy @ 20km:
Richelieu:
True Mean Dispersion (TMD): 250m
Average range pattern @ 20km
8guns: 250m x 3.85 = 963m
4guns: 250m x 2.89 = 723m

KGV:
True Mean Dispersion (TMD): 113m
Average range pattern:
10guns: 113m x 3.85 = 468m
5guns: 113m x 2.89 = 363m

Danger Zones @ 20km:
Richelieu’s guns Angle of Fall @ 20km = 15.6° Danger zone vs. KGV 10m high 30m beam = 64m
KGV’s guns Angle of Fall @ 20km = 19.6° Danger zone vs. Littorio 10m high 30m beam = 58m

Hitting space in relation to True mean dispersion and average ranging error = X:
DZ / (TMD+RE) = X
Richelieu: X = 18.3%
KGV: X = 25.8%

Projectile times of flight @ 20km:
Richelieu: 31s
KGV: 35s

Hit probability with respect to errors accumulating during time of flight:
X / ¼ ToF = Hp
Richelieu: Hp = 2.36%
KGV: Hp = 2.95%

Initial rate of fire to find the range (IF):
i.e. 60s / (ToF + 20s observation + correction time) x no of guns -10% for expected output misses:
Richelieu: 8.47 shots per min
KGV: 9.82 shots per min

Average rate (AR) of fire:
Richelieu: 9.03 shots per min
KGV: 10.17 shots per min

Expected hits per 10 min:
i.e. Hp x AR x 10
Richelieu: 2.13 hits per 10 min
KGV: 3.00 hits per 10 min

Explosives effects on TGT:
i.e. Explosive filler of Armor Piercing Round times hits divided by 2 (I expect 50% duds):
Richelieu: 21.9kg x 2.13/ 2 = 23.3kg
KGV: 18.1kg x 3.00 / 2 = 27.2kg

Belt Penetration @ broadside:
Richelieu could penetrate KGV’s belt (374/350mm) @ ~22km
(381/355mm acc Common Ground …)
KGV could penetrate Richelieu’s belt (327 + 50 @ 35°~ 395mm) @ ~14 km
(394mm acc Common Ground…)
However, both would plan to angle their ship towards incoming fire, thus increasing hitting angles / obliquity and so increasing armor resistance. Such a 30° inclination would decrease maximum battle range at which belt penetration could be achieved by roughly 30%.
Belt penetration @ 30° inclination:
Richelieu could penetrate KGV @ ~15km
KGV could penetrate Littorio @ ~10km

So, outside of 15km KGV could land more hits and disable more combat critical elements like range finder, turrets, command positions and unarmored or weakly armored hull sections. Only inside 15km would Richelieu have the advantage of possibly achieving crippling or catastrophic hits before KGV could achieve such hits only inside 10km.

Summary:
1. Hits: Richelieu 2.13 : 3.00 KGV
2. Explosives: Richelieu) 23.3kg : 27.2kg KGV
3. Belt pen: Richelieu 15km : 10km KGV

Richelieu 1:2 KGV
fsimon
Senior Member
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:29 pm
Location: Rostock, Germany

Littorio vs. KGV at night: blind fire capability

Post by fsimon »

One more important advantage for KGV in 1943 and at night was the capability of blind fire in low visibility situations like low cloud ceiling where star shell would be in or above the clouds and could not illuminate the opponent, or low visibility in rain squalls or snow showers. Visibility would typically be 5km or even less in such situations. The Type 284M fire control radar could spot 14” shell splashes out to 19km and could use lobe switching out o 19km as well to fine track in azimuth to an accuracy of 5-10 min of arc, i.e. 0.08-0.16°. With the PRP L18 module it could range with an accuracy of 23m or at least 36m.

Summary:
1. Hits: Littorio 3.48 : 4.95 KGV
2. Explosives: Littorio 17.7kg : 44.8kg KGV
3. Blind fire: Littorio 5km : 19km KGV
4. Belt pen: Littorio 17.5km : 8km KGV

Littorio 1:3 KGV
fsimon
Senior Member
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:29 pm
Location: Rostock, Germany

Re: Littorio vs. KGV at night

Post by fsimon »

fsimon wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2023 7:39 pm July 1943 Mediterranean Sea, night time, visibility 20km, intermittent visibility in rainsqualls 5km

...


Explosives effects on TGT:
i.e. Explosive filler of Armor Piercing Round times hits divided by 2 (I expect 50% duds):
Littorio: 10.16kg x 3.48/ 2 = 17.7kg
KGV: 18.1kg x 4.95 / 2 = 89.6kg
...
For KGV I previously forgot to divide the explosive by 2 for the amount of expected duds. So the corrected amount of explosives would be 44.8kg and not 89.6kg.
fsimon
Senior Member
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:29 pm
Location: Rostock, Germany

Re: Fast Battleship League Table

Post by fsimon »

Richelieu vs. KGV at night
August 1945 night time, visibility 20km, intermittent visibility in rainsqualls 5km

Top Spot / Director Range Finders:
Richelieu Type 284P 23m or at least 36m accuracy, blind fire to ~19km
KGV Type 274 23m or at least 36m accuracy, blind fire to ~28km

Hitting space in relation to True mean dispersion and average ranging error = X:
DZ / (TMD+RE) = X
Richelieu: X = 23.4%
KGV: X = 42.6%

Projectile times of flight @ 20km:
Richelieu: 31s
KGV: 35s

Hit probability with respect to errors accumulating during time of flight:
X / ¼ ToF = Hp
Richelieu: Hp = 3.02%
KGV: Hp = 4.87%

Average rate (AR) of fire:
Richelieu: 9.03 shots per min
KGV: 10.17 shots per min

Expected hits per 10 min:
i.e. Hp x AR x 10
Richelieu: 2.73 hits per 10 min
KGV: 4.95 hits per 10 min

Explosives effects on TGT:
i.e. Explosive filler of Armor Piercing Round times hits divided by 2 (I expect 50% duds):
Richelieu: 21.9kg x 2.73/ 2 = 29.9kg
KGV: 18.1kg x 4.95 / 2 = 44.8kg

So, while both could increase their accuracy with modern accurate fire control radars, Richelieu was still hampered by the poor dispersion of her guns. This problem was only solved after the war, by installing firing delay coils.

Belt penetration @ 30° inclination:
Richelieu could penetrate KGV @ ~15km
KGV could penetrate Richelieu @ ~10km

Summary:
1. Hits: Richelieu 2.73 : 4.95 KGV
2. Explosives: Richelieu 29.9kg : 44.8kg KGV
3. Blind fire: Richelieu 19km : 28km KGV
4. Belt pen: Richelieu 15km : 10km KGV

Richelieu 1:3 KGV
Last edited by fsimon on Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
fsimon
Senior Member
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:29 pm
Location: Rostock, Germany

Re: Fast Battleship League Table

Post by fsimon »

Table status after six battles:
BB table.JPG
BB table.JPG (64.22 KiB) Viewed 22183 times
fsimon
Senior Member
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:29 pm
Location: Rostock, Germany

North Carolina vs. KGV daytime

Post by fsimon »

April 1942 North Atlantic, daytime clear weather
I made a mistake. I used the Mark 3 ranging accuracy of NC for this scenario, but Mark 3 ranging with the small antenna would have been available only inside of 18km. I would expect that KGV would have found the range by that time as well. So I redid the calculation and only considered the optical rangefinders at 20km.
Top Spot / Director Range Finders accuracy:
North Carolina: 26ft wide, 25 times magnification = accuracy @20km = ~173m
North Carolina Turret range finder: 46ft wide, 25 times magnification = accuracy @20km = ~100m
Mark 3 fire control radar (still with small 7.5ft antenna): 37m; max 18km range
KGV: 15ft wide, 25 times magnification = accuracy @20km = ~306m
KGV Turret range finder: 41ft, 25 times magnification = accuracy @20km =~112m
KGV Type 284 fire control radar: 110m; max 18-19km range

Gun accuracy @ 20km:
North Carolina:
True Mean Dispersion (TMD): 77m (probably the most accurate guns of WW2 at this range)
Average range pattern @ 20km
9guns: 77m x 4 = 306m
3guns: 77m x 2.43 = 186m

KGV:
True Mean Dispersion (TMD): 113m
Average range pattern:
10guns: 113m x 3.85 = 468m
5guns: 113m x 2.89 = 363m

Danger Zones @ 20km:
North Carolina’s guns Angle of Fall @ 20km = 21.7° Danger zone vs. KGV 10m high 30m beam = 53m
KGV’s guns Angle of Fall @ 20km = 19.6° Danger zone vs. NC 10m high 30m beam = 58m

Danger Zones in relation to True mean dispersion and average ranging error = X:
DZ / (TMD+RE) = X
NC: X =29.9%
KGV: X = 25.8%

Projectile times of flight @ 20km:
NC: 37s
KGV: 35s

Hit probability with respect to errors accumulating during time of flight:
X / ¼ ToF = Hp
NC: Hp = 3.24%
KGV: Hp = 2.95%

Initial rate of fire to find the range (IF):
i.e. 60s / (ToF + 20s observation + correction time) x no of guns -10% for expected output misses:
NC: 8.53 shots per min
KGV: 9.82 shots per min

Average rate (AR) of fire:
NC: 11.76 shots per min
KGV: 10.17 shots per min

Expected hits per 10 min:
i.e. Hp x AR x 10
NC: 3.81 hits per 10 min
KGV: 3.00 hits per 10 min

Explosives effects on TGT:
i.e. Explosive filler of Armor Piercing Round times hits divided by 2 (I expect 50% duds):
NC: 18.55kg x 3.81/ 2 = 35.3kg
KGV: 18.1kg x 3.00 / 2 = 27.2kg

Belt Penetration @ broadside:
NC could penetrate KGV’s belt (374/350mm) @ ~19km
(388mm acc Common Ground …)
KGV could penetrate NC’s belt (305 @ -19°~ 330mm) @ ~18 km
(333mm acc Common Ground…)
However, both would plan to angle their ship towards incoming fire, thus increasing hitting angles / obliquity and so increasing armor resistance. Such a 30° inclination would decrease maximum battle range at which belt penetration could be achieved by roughly 30%.
Belt penetration @ 30° inclination:
NC could penetrate KGV @ ~13km
KGV could penetrate NC @ ~13km

Summary:
1. Hits: NC 3.81 : 3.00 KGV
2. Explosives: NC 35.3kg : 27.2kg KGV
4. Belt pen: NC 13km : 13km KGV (i.e. 1:1)

NC 3:1 KGV
Last edited by fsimon on Sat Oct 14, 2023 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
fsimon
Senior Member
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:29 pm
Location: Rostock, Germany

North Carolina vs. KGV at night, late war

Post by fsimon »

August 1945 night time, visibility 20km, intermittent visibility in rainsqualls 5km

Top Spot / Director Range Finders:
North Carolina Mark 8 Mod 2: 34m, blind fire to ~32km
KGV Type 274: 23m or at least 36m accuracy, blind fire to ~28km

Hitting space in relation to True mean dispersion and average ranging error = X:
DZ / (TMD+RE) = X
NC: X = 47.7%
KGV: X = 42.6%

Projectile times of flight @ 20km:
NC: 37s
KGV: 35s

Hit probability with respect to errors accumulating during time of flight:
X / ¼ ToF = Hp
NC: Hp = 5.16%
KGV: Hp = 4.87%

Average rate (AR) of fire:
NC: 11.76 shots per min
KGV: 10.17 shots per min

Expected hits per 10 min:
i.e. Hp x AR x 10
NC: 6.06 hits per 10 min
KGV: 4.95 hits per 10 min

Explosives effects on TGT:
i.e. Explosive filler of Armor Piercing Round times hits divided by 2 (I expect 50% duds):
NC: 18.55kg x 6.06/ 2 = 56.2kg
KGV: 18.1kg x 4.95 / 2 = 44.8kg


Belt penetration @ 30° inclination:
NC could penetrate KGV @ ~13km
KGV could penetrate NC @ ~13km

Blind fire:
NC: 32km
KGV: 27km

Summary:
1. Hits: NC 6.06 : 4.95 KGV
2. Explosives: NC 56.2kg : 44.8kg KGV
3. Blind fire: NC 32km : 28km KGV
4. Belt pen: NC 13km : 13km KGV

NC 4:1 KGV
Post Reply