Photos of ships sinking

Naval photographers post your photos here. Warship tours, mistery ships, quizzes, etc.
Ramius
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Postby Ramius » Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:41 pm

These are from Wiki:
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The Lonely Queen early in the war,
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The tool of her demise,
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Tirpitz capsized in Tromso Fjord.

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paulcadogan
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Postby paulcadogan » Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:55 pm

I know this is not the final attack but here's Tirpitz under attack by the Barracuda bombers from Victorious & Furious:

Image

But you can find a great series of photos in this thread:

http://www.kbismarck.org/forum/viewtopi ... cfc8a0be05

Paul
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Ramius
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Postby Ramius » Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:40 pm

GREAT!!!!!!!!!
Those are very nice, if somebody could find the source and put them on here it would be perfect! Maybe Antonio could find them...

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Re: Photos of ships sinking

Postby Ramius » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:45 am

This is the HMNZS Waikato after being scuttled as an artificial reef...
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Legend
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Re: Photos of ships sinking

Postby Legend » Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:09 am

Here's another of ex-USS Oriskany...

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RF
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Re: Photos of ships sinking

Postby RF » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:39 pm

There is also the famous picture of Barham sinking - with the detonation of the magazines....
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Legend
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Re: Photos of ships sinking

Postby Legend » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:05 am

Isn't that an image from the video? They had a nice long clip of the sinking I think...
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Karl Heidenreich
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Re: Photos of ships sinking

Postby Karl Heidenreich » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:50 am

I have seen it, and have it, and it´s not that nice if you consider the panic and agony of the hundreds of poor souls trapped in it when it capzised and exploded.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
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hammy
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Re: Photos of ships sinking

Postby hammy » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:13 pm

He was using the British casual use of "nice" by which we mean something very different . Bl******g Grim is what he means .
I heard that there were a lot of Maltese sailors , serving as R N sailors , aboard when Barham was sunk .

Another example ( like "the Sullivans" ) why you should avoid posting family or people from the same areas to the same units/ships .

Battleship's Magazine contents were not designed to be held in place beyond critical angles of inclination ( ie an angle beyond that which the battleship could roll back to an upright position from ) because to do so would be pointless -- the ship was lost by then anyway , capsised , and to do so would consume valuable weight .
The big projectiles were simply stacked in " shell bins " , literally an open topped steel box on the shell-room floor .
Once a ship is laying on her side , stuff starts to fly about and if a light fitting or electrical junction gets smashed and starts to spark then you can see how a magazine explosion happens .

I wonder if this accounts for the FORWARD magazine explosion in Hood as she was sinking , or whether that was flame passing forward along the old secondary armament ammunition supply passage ?
" Relax ! No-one else is going to be fool enough to be sailing about in this fog ."

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Legend
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Re: Photos of ships sinking

Postby Legend » Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:08 pm

You know what would have been a good idea? Have the shells on a massive ball bearing in the inner wall of the turret, allowing quick shell position to the elevator and in the case of high rolling it would allot the shells to simply, slide down to the lowest point instead of falling into the turret wall below.
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Re: Photos of ships sinking

Postby Bgile » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:55 pm

hammy wrote:I wonder if this accounts for the FORWARD magazine explosion in Hood as she was sinking , or whether that was flame passing forward along the old secondary armament ammunition supply passage ?


As far as I know, that didn't happen. I believe someone who really didn't understand the dynamics involved (Ballard perhaps?) started that theory when first observing the wreck and that it's since been debunked.

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paulcadogan
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Re: Photos of ships sinking

Postby paulcadogan » Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:22 am

hammy wrote:I wonder if this accounts for the FORWARD magazine explosion in Hood as she was sinking


The damage done by that unfortunate part of the otherwise pretty good Channel 4 documentary endures.....

(A bit off topic but anyway....consider it a verbal picture of a sinking ship!)

Let me bring you up to speed Hammy... That theory has been completely refuted and laid to rest by Bill Jurens (who was on the expedition) with the support of other forensic experts. It should never have been made public as it was never supported by evidence. Hood's forward section submerged intact (as witnessed by the survivors, the PoW's observers and the Germans) and broke apart due to implosive forces during the plunge to the bottom.

What about the conning tower so far "separated" from the rest of the hull because it was blown away by the "second explosion"? No such thing. The actual distance was never really established. The conning tower was a very heavy, thickly armoured structure, plus its shape made it pretty hydrodynamic. It ripped away and sank like a stone and probably is closest to the true spot at which Hood left the surface. The sections of hull drifted more with the underwater currents.

Plus, if the forward mags had gone up, there would have been no survivors...

Here's a link to a recent thread in the Hood forum where Bill once again refutes this misinformation:

http://www.hmshood.org.uk/forum/phpBB3/ ... ?f=10&t=79

Paul
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hammy
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Re: Photos of ships sinking

Postby hammy » Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:14 pm

paulcadogan wrote:
The damage done by that unfortunate part of the otherwise pretty good Channel 4 documentary endures.....


I actually had in mind Ted Briggs description of a "gust" of flame coming up around the area of the forebridge tower , and the damage/lack of ship section found in this area during the first survey of the wreck .
This indicates to me cordite propellant burning off .
What would be the source ?
There was a U P rocket mounting on top of B turret , which presumably had the same provision of "ready-use" reload rocket rounds as did the ones aft on the shelterdeck which we know caused the superficial big fire in that ( boatdeck ) area , so that is one possible source for cordite flame gusts . But not for a whole section of the hull missing .
All other munition was in "fixed" or rifle cartridge type rounds - 0.5 cal mg , 40mm pompom , 4 inch HA AA , leaving main 15 inch propellant charges as the other possible source .
Some few charges are actually held in the turrets , as "ready-use" munition in case of a supply stoppage , so there is a second possible source .
Some munition would be en-route to the guns and these charges , which may well have been out of their tin containers , are in my view a more plausible source .
Lastly there are the main propellant magazines themselves , which would have still held nearly all of the hundred plus rounds per gun that was the capacity , but as there was no Barham-type ( or Roma type ) detonation , this does not seem to have occurred in Hood .
Let me bring you up to speed Hammy... That theory has been completely refuted and laid to rest by Bill Jurens (who was on the expedition) with the support of other forensic experts. It should never have been made public as it was never supported by evidence. Hood's forward section submerged intact (as witnessed by the survivors, the PoW's observers and the Germans) and broke apart due to implosive forces during the plunge to the bottom.


Hum ! I have the greatest repect for Bill Jurens work and having studied a number of his posts on highly technical subjects elsewhere in the forum I am aware that his expertise is way , way in advance of my own Hobbyist knowledge , however , the " forensic investigation " consisted of the study of remote images of a limited area of a very fragmented wreck site , and of very limited areas of the wrecked ship - much imbedded in sediment , or otherwise hidden from view .

I am aware of the reasons for the "look but dont touch" policy , and that of not trying to look inside the wreck , and I support them fully , but the imposed constraint on the investigation was there , and must be given due weight in considering the conclusions made .
We should not ascribe to the work done at the time , or all the study since , any unwarranted belief that it represents the last word , or some final , definitive , fully authorative statement of fact which answers all questions , for ever , amen !
I'm sure the authors would not claim that .
You certainly would not accept this level of investigation as adequate for a "murder" scene , and I wonder if the term "Forensic " is unfortunately taken in the sense of meaning a comprehensive "crime scene" type of exhaustive investigation , when I am sure that all that was intended was to convey that the study and findings were to be strictly along the lines of rigourous scientific enquiry , and evidence based , with a minimum of speculation .

Implosion effects in a strongly built and complicated riveted hull do not blow areas of the ship to smithereens .
The result of water pressure squeezing air-containing "water tight" compartments is to squeeze inwards the centre of unsupported plating until the riveted seams give way , the water then bursting inward to equalise the pressure .
It doesn't need to open more than a few percent of the plate or seams to do this .
You can see this clearly on the Hood wreck images in the inverted midships double bottom area .
This is NOT what we are looking at from the conning tower forward to the forecastle . The decks above the main armoured deck and below the forecastle deck were mostly crew mess spaces etc . While I would expect to see them ripped about or crushed , I would not expect to not see the area at all !

With regard to the conning tower , I hadn't come across this one before , ie the suggestion that it was launched out of the hull like a giant rocket . Of course , the ship is constructed so that the tower sits on/in the structure , it is not intended to dangle from it , any more than boilers or turbines or turrets or "fighting masts" are , they mostly fall / tear away at high inclinations or inversion .
Given the shape/weight of the CT I can agree it is probably close to vertically below where it seperated from the hull .

Plus, if the forward mags had gone up, there would have been no survivors...


Hum again ! Plausibly YES if there was a Barham type detonation -- that , plus the cold water , could well have done for everyone , but in a partial explosion/deflagration ?
( Dont forget that , despite her awe inspiring and cataclysmic end , survivors of the Barham - in the warmer waters of the Mediterranean , and with prompt arrival of rescueing friendly ships closeby - numbered some hundreds .)
Here's a link to a recent thread in the Hood forum where Bill once again refutes this misinformation:

http://www.hmshood.org.uk/forum/phpBB3/ ... p?f=10&t=7
Paul


I viewed it , but I'm still not convinced either way . Also , saying "I do not agree with you" is not the same thing as refutation .
I'm afraid that , pending future expeditions to the wreck and further study , the issues are going to have to lay in the "Pending-too difficult" tray for now.

It may be helpful at this point to restate the difference between "Burning" and "Exploding" propellant charges , which is simply a matter of speed ;- if the flame - front does not exceed the speed of sound , then you hear a loud hiss or whoosh , accompanied by the "gust of flame" . If the flame - front DOES exceed the speed of sound , then you get the bang .
Propellant charges are designed to burn ( very fast ) rather than explode . When present in large quantities (tons) , confined or over-heated , they can be induced to explode rather than burn . Both are referred to as "deflagration".
" Relax ! No-one else is going to be fool enough to be sailing about in this fog ."

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hammy
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Re: Photos of ships sinking

Postby hammy » Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:51 pm

I made a boob in quoting paul's thread link , that should end 79 , not 7 . sorry .
" Relax ! No-one else is going to be fool enough to be sailing about in this fog ."

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IronDuke
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Re: Photos of ships sinking

Postby IronDuke » Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:53 am

I always find ships sinking sad.
Ted
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