Evidence of scuttling?

Anything concerning the wreck. Expeditions, submersibles, photos, etc.
User avatar
paulcadogan
Senior Member
Posts: 1095
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:03 am
Location: Kingston, Jamaica

Evidence of scuttling?

Postby paulcadogan » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:18 am

All,

In the recent Nat Geo documentary "Nazi Supership" they make the claim to have identified evidence of Bismarck's scuttling in the form of "twisted metal of a water cooling inlet blown open below the waterline". It peaked the interest of Bill Jurens in the Hood forum.

I got a still photo off the documentary, but am not sure about posting it because of copyright issues, but I did a quick sketch of it that I've posted below. If you think posting the actual still with due credit to the Nat Geo program is OK let me know and I'll do so. I realize it's hard to judge something with no reference to scale or exact location, but here 's the sketch for what its worth.
Attachments
Bismarck Debris sketch.jpg
Sketch of "blown out water cooling inlet" from Nat Geo Documentary "Nazi Supership"
Bismarck Debris sketch.jpg (126.42 KiB) Viewed 4030 times
Qui invidet minor est - He who envies is the lesser man

User avatar
Bernd Willmer
Member
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:56 pm
Location: Vaihingen/Enz, Germany
Contact:

Re: Evidence of scuttling?

Postby Bernd Willmer » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:27 pm

Posting it with full credits should fall under FAIR USE ...

I am reconstructing the hull openings of Bismarck including the sea valves and many other types. So I would be interesed in seeing the original still!

Bye!

Ventil_large_02.JPG
Ventil_large_02.JPG (55.4 KiB) Viewed 4012 times


Ventil_large_01.JPG
(67.56 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Bye,

Bernd.

User avatar
paulcadogan
Senior Member
Posts: 1095
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:03 am
Location: Kingston, Jamaica

Re: Evidence of scuttling?

Postby paulcadogan » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:33 am

OK here's the still frame:
Attachments
Still frame from Nat Geo Documentary Nazi Supership.jpg
Still frame from Nat Geo Documentary Nazi Supership.jpg (12.44 KiB) Viewed 3999 times
Qui invidet minor est - He who envies is the lesser man

User avatar
Bernd Willmer
Member
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:56 pm
Location: Vaihingen/Enz, Germany
Contact:

Re: Evidence of scuttling?

Postby Bernd Willmer » Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:18 pm

Hi,

hard to recognize anything in the still - do you have a larger version, please?
Bye,



Bernd.

User avatar
paulcadogan
Senior Member
Posts: 1095
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:03 am
Location: Kingston, Jamaica

Re: Evidence of scuttling?

Postby paulcadogan » Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:26 pm

No, that is entierly what was shown on the TV screen for about 1 or 2 seconds. So obviously that can't help with your model. Sorry!
Qui invidet minor est - He who envies is the lesser man

User avatar
RF
Senior Member
Posts: 7490
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:15 pm
Location: Wolverhampton, ENGLAND

Re: Evidence of scuttling?

Postby RF » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:09 am

I am not aware of anyone questioning whether scuttling charges were detonated on Bismarck, as the order to scuttle was given.

So what exactly is the point being made in this thread? Is it, shock horror, that Bismarck sank by scuttling and wasn't sunk by the British?

What we have here is another television ''documentary'' trying to be sensationalistic to get in the viewers and bring in the advertising revenue.

I would take these documentaries with a proverbial pinch of salt. One recent documentary stated that Bismarck had a main armament of five inch guns..... which tells me that they haven't got a clue what they are talking about.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

User avatar
paulcadogan
Senior Member
Posts: 1095
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:03 am
Location: Kingston, Jamaica

Re: Evidence of scuttling?

Postby paulcadogan » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:10 pm

RF wrote:I am not aware of anyone questioning whether scuttling charges were detonated on Bismarck, as the order to scuttle was given.

So what exactly is the point being made in this thread? Is it, shock horror, that Bismarck sank by scuttling and wasn't sunk by the British?


Actually RF it was Bill Jurens that picked up on the scuttling evidence claim when I opened a thread on the documentary in the Hood forum. He was interested in what they saw. I simply thought it might be of interest here too.

The consensus seems to be that it is questionable that the object above really represents what the documentary claimed it does because of how and where the charges were placed and how much damage they did when they went off. Add to that the hull damage from the impact with and slide down the sea floor....

So it's not to "prove" scuttling - I'm sure we all accept that it happened. It was the claim of seeing actual evidence that was of interest.

http://www.hmshood.org.uk/forum/phpBB3/ ... ?f=9&t=181
Qui invidet minor est - He who envies is the lesser man

Bgile
Senior Member
Posts: 3658
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:33 pm
Location: Portland, OR, USA

Re: Evidence of scuttling?

Postby Bgile » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:11 pm

I'm not sure normal scuttling charges would show damage externally. For example, and obvious method would be to blow inlet water pipes.

User avatar
paulcadogan
Senior Member
Posts: 1095
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:03 am
Location: Kingston, Jamaica

Re: Evidence of scuttling?

Postby paulcadogan » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:16 pm

Bgile wrote:I'm not sure normal scuttling charges would show damage externally. For example, and obvious method would be to blow inlet water pipes.


That's pretty much what was being said in the Hood thread. Any external damage on the lower hull is more likely impact/slide damage - I would think - even obscuring the location of possible torpedo hits.
Qui invidet minor est - He who envies is the lesser man

User avatar
RF
Senior Member
Posts: 7490
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:15 pm
Location: Wolverhampton, ENGLAND

Re: Evidence of scuttling?

Postby RF » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:31 am

paulcadogan wrote:So it's not to "prove" scuttling - I'm sure we all accept that it happened. It was the claim of seeing actual evidence that was of interest.


Can I make it clear that my criticism was of the angle taken in the documentary in trying to hype up claims of scuttling and imply that Bismarck only sank because of the scuttling charges.

I believe Bgile is right in pointing out that scuttling damage would be manifest internally rather than externally.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

User avatar
paulcadogan
Senior Member
Posts: 1095
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:03 am
Location: Kingston, Jamaica

Re: Evidence of scuttling?

Postby paulcadogan » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:03 pm

RF wrote:Can I make it clear that my criticism was of the angle taken in the documentary in trying to hype up claims of scuttling and imply that Bismarck only sank because of the scuttling charges.


Understood.

Apart from further preserving the testimony of survivors/participants/eyewitnesses - which is always valued, this documentary offers nothing new and leaves out so much detail that it fails to adequately tell Bismarck's story IMHO. No mention of PE's hits on Hood, no mention of PoW's battle damage and precipitous retreat, no Victorious, no destroyers, no Sheffield, no mention of KGV anywhere, not even in the final battle!
Qui invidet minor est - He who envies is the lesser man


Return to “The Wreck of the Bismarck”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest