Bismarck Wreck Salvage

Anything concerning the wreck. Expeditions, submersibles, photos, etc.
behblc
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Re: Wreck salvage

Postby behblc » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:32 am

Although I have not posted here very often, in my spare time I do a fair bit of reading on things Kriegsmarine related and in the course of this Bismarck and other capital ships.
I can't really figure out why anyone would wish to raise the ship and much less why anyone would ever want to as has already been pointed out the technology to do does not exist nor is it likely to nor will the means to transport some 50,000 tons of sunken ship to France or Southern Ireland.
The Atlantic is not the most co operative water to mount any form of salvage operation and as one gent has said recovering one of her turrets would be a major undertaking in itself. but why would anyone even consider disturbing the ship at all ?

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RF
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Re: Wreck salvage

Postby RF » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:03 pm

This is a very good question.

I would favour looking at the wreck in the context of historical evidence, but that is as far as it should go.

I think the motives of those who seek to raise the wreck need to be closely examined.
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Re: Wreck salvage

Postby Djoser » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:55 am

All kinds of shipwrecks have been raised and restored, the Vasa being one recent example. No one freaks out about it or claims 'disrespect to the dead', etc.

I really wouldn't see it as disrespect to the dead--the flesh has long since been devoured by fish and the bones crumbled away. Also, having worked in a hospital morgue for a few months as a college job, I can tell you that once the sacred spark of life has departed, what is left is no more than what you will see in your grocery store meat department (only it hasn't been neatly sliced up and packaged of course). The spirits of those men--if they exist, and if they had any inclination to hang around for a few hundred years instead of going off to better places--would surely reside within the ship, and not on the ocean floor.

If the wreck could be easily raised and restored to some degree (which presently is not at all the case), I would view it as a great tribute to a magnificent fighting ship and her brave crew, not disrespect at all. But I understand there are people who view it differently, and I respect that. Rather a moot point, as it isn't likely to happen in our lifetimes anyway.

I think it will be more than a few years before the technology exists to raise the wreck without spending ridiculous amounts of money, that could be better used for any number of other things.

Bismarck_Fan

Re: Wreck salvage

Postby Bismarck_Fan » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:55 am

It would stink after it had dried all out. Just think of the mold that would grow afterwards. That in itself would cost even more millions. Why not just build a Bismarck replica!

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RF
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Re: Bismarck Wreck Salvage

Postby RF » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:56 pm

Given the price of steel, the cost would be colossal.
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Re: Bismarck Wreck Salvage

Postby Djoser » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:51 am

They could use some sort of substitute for the thick armor plate, of course--but the cost would still be phenomenal. Still cheaper than attempting to raise and restore the original, I bet.

Still, I wouldn't rule out the possibility for the future, either way--more likely the construction of a replica. Look at the amazing feat of engineering that was performed even as far back as the late 60s, with the raising of the the temples at Abu Simbel.

I am thinking that if the progress in computer-aided manufacturing continues, we could see it happening in 50-100 years, if people are still as fascinated with the Bismarck as they are today. Large portions of the ship could be left unfinished--no need to construct all four turrets with their magazines, loading and training equipment for instance. One would certainly suffice, with the other three being complete only on the outside. Same goes for the engine rooms, boilers, etc.

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RF
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Re: Bismarck Wreck Salvage

Postby RF » Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:52 am

The only remaining difficulty (in the short term) then will be one of finance, particulary against the background of economic recession and the new financial austerity following on from the problems with the banking system liquidity and of course the costs of supporting the Euro.

If we are looking at 50 to 100 years hence - will there still be the same level of interest in Bismarck? Or will more current issues then command the financial purse strings, such as space exploration?
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Re: Bismarck Wreck Salvage

Postby Djoser » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:56 am

RF wrote:The only remaining difficulty (in the short term) then will be one of finance, particulary against the background of economic recession and the new financial austerity following on from the problems with the banking system liquidity and of course the costs of supporting the Euro.

If we are looking at 50 to 100 years hence - will there still be the same level of interest in Bismarck? Or will more current issues then command the financial purse strings, such as space exploration?


Yeah given the choice between building a Bismarck replica and building a spaceship, I'd much rather see them do the latter. And I doubt the same interest will be there in 100 years. 50 maybe a lot of interest still. I guess it would be the equivalent of building a replica of the Victory now.

I was thinking some sort of super advanced replication method. Some of the automated manufacturing and casting methods used today would have been virtually unthinkable 100 years ago.

And of course, as you have pointed out, a prosperous enough economy to finance it. Also, it wouldn't be necessary to have working engines or boilers, that would take a lot of the expense out I would think. Can't skimp on starship engines! :lol:

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RF
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Re: Bismarck Wreck Salvage

Postby RF » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:45 pm

True, you can't skimp on starship ''warpdrive'' but it would be likely by then that the skills in boiler making would have been lost for ever.
Some of the heritage steam railways in Britain are now starting to encounter problems in keeping a pool of trained skilled labour in boiler making and steam engine maintenance as the older generation passes away and todays young enthusiasts have to be given the training in these old and obsolete technologies, which includes learning to work by getting your hands dirty with oil, grease and grime - something that the computer savvy youngsters tend to find rather disturbing...
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

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Re: Bismarck Wreck Salvage

Postby Djoser » Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:10 pm

RF wrote:True, you can't skimp on starship ''warpdrive'' but it would be likely by then that the skills in boiler making would have been lost for ever.
Some of the heritage steam railways in Britain are now starting to encounter problems in keeping a pool of trained skilled labour in boiler making and steam engine maintenance as the older generation passes away and todays young enthusiasts have to be given the training in these old and obsolete technologies, which includes learning to work by getting your hands dirty with oil, grease and grime - something that the computer savvy youngsters tend to find rather disturbing...


:lol:

Yeah kind of reminds me of the problems they have had trying to build replicas of the old triremes and quinqueremes. They've done pretty well but to a certain extent it's been a sort of re-invention process.

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Re: Bismarck Wreck Salvage

Postby willmart 97 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:35 am

I felt that the guns should be salvaged, for people to marvel at their size and destructive power.However, the last post convinced me they should stay where they are as they contain the final resting places of the gun crews. I dont know if there are pictuires of the entire ship but it would be nice to look at them instead of the real thing.

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Re: Bismarck Wreck Salvage

Postby ede144 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:45 pm

You can't visit Bismarcks turrets, however you can visit Gneisenaus turrets in Norway. Google for Austratt battery there you can find 11' Cäsar. The 15" turret is also installed in Norway unfortunately without guns. If you want to see a 16" gun look at Trondenes Fort

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RF
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Re: Bismarck Wreck Salvage

Postby RF » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:54 pm

willmart 97 wrote:I felt that the guns should be salvaged, for people to marvel at their size and destructive power.


You don't need to salvage the Bismarck's guns to do this. The US Navy has or did have Iowa class battleships which can more than adequately discharge this function with their triple 16 inch gun turrets.....
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Re: Bismarck Wreck Salvage

Postby tommy303 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:36 am


Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood and Earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned these defended;
And saved the sum of things for pay.

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Re: Bismarck Wreck Salvage

Postby Teymour » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:18 am

I am quite fascinated by the Bismark battleship.I think that if it is possible,which I think that it is,it should be salvaged.I can understand the argument regarding not bringing it up because the site is a "tomb" or a "grave" of the fallen sailors aboard the ship,but I think that the argument to raise the ship outweighs it.
Firstly,Bismark is not any battleship.It was the biggest battleship of it's time,and a pride of the German navy.Who knows if the Bismark had survived a few more years,it would have run havoc with the allied navy.Because it being a pride of the German navy,I think that the german nation have a right to see and marval at it,and take pride in what they achieved,unlike just reading about it in books.Secondly I disagree that the site is a graveyard,because I don't believe that there are any graves down there.It's an ocean bed,and not a cemetery.Unlike those who get burried,where even after hundread of years,one can expect to see a skeleton,if a grave is exhumed.In the sea,however,only after a few months,there is nothing left.All you can expect to find are perhaps clothes,and shoes,as you might have seen at the Titanic site.Besides those clothes and shoes could be given a proper Christian burrial in a military cemetery,which would be far more befitting in my view.Also I think that the battleship belongs to the state,and the entire German nation,and is not a private property of any individual,and offcourse if would be wrong to walk into a graveyard with a shovel,and dig up someone's grave.


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