Brazil buys 50 helicopters, 5 submarines from France

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Bill
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Re: Brazil buys 50 helicopters, 5 submarines from France

Post by Bill » Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:58 pm

one Airbus A380 have need to land back in paris today, just after start a trip to Singapoure.

These FU...G british motors aren't reliable for a penny :lol:

very good than the french and the germans made a plane can fly with one motor less :clap:
- Well sir, please agree with me that you other, French, you fight for monnay, whenn us, british, fight for the honnor !
- Of course sir, but you know, everybody fight for what he's leack !
Robert Surcouf, French Corsair, 1773-1827


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Re: Brazil buys 50 helicopters, 5 submarines from France

Post by Bgile » Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:09 pm

Bill wrote:very good than the french and the germans made a plane can fly with one motor less :clap:
You do realize that all civil aircraft certified to fly over water have to be able to do that, right? In fact, I believe they have to be able to fly back after losing one engine half way across the largest body of water on their trip.

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Re: Brazil buys 50 helicopters, 5 submarines from France

Post by marcelo_malara » Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:21 pm

I think that the rule is that they must be able to reach an alternate airport in less than 180 minutes with the remaining engine.

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Bill
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Re: Brazil buys 50 helicopters, 5 submarines from France

Post by Bill » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:01 pm

the guys made this rules is a very clever one :ok:

specially whenn you consider british engine on board :whistle:
- Well sir, please agree with me that you other, French, you fight for monnay, whenn us, british, fight for the honnor !
- Of course sir, but you know, everybody fight for what he's leack !
Robert Surcouf, French Corsair, 1773-1827


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Re: Brazil buys 50 helicopters, 5 submarines from France

Post by USS ALASKA » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:55 pm

Rather unwarranted and overly harsh criticism of RR engines….

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Nelson Ott
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Re: Brazil buys 50 helicopters, 5 submarines from France

Post by Nelson Ott » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:55 pm

USS ALASKA wrote:Rather unwarranted and overly harsh criticism of RR engines….
Specially when you consider that a RR engine (the Merlin) equipping so many Spitfires, P-51s and Lancasters, helped to freed France from the Nazi dominance ... :?

Back to the Brazilian purchase, I can still hear my wife saying after we heard the news, "... so are we going to buy aircrafts from the French after so many Airbus crashes around here ?"

Female wisdom ? :wink:

Regards

Nelson

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Re: Brazil buys 50 helicopters, 5 submarines from France

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:24 am

Well... when Air France 447 entered the zone in which it "dissapeared" two Lufthansa flights were comming in the other direction, went through the same turbulence area and landed safely.

Just a side info about the issues...

About the RR engines, pals: don´t be harsh with them. A lot of the airplanes flew by the US Air Force and the RAF in order to liberate France from the Germans used RR engines: Lancasters, Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, etc. etc. In a way, France owes a lot to Rolls Royce. Obviously they owe more to Boeing.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
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Bill
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Re: Brazil buys 50 helicopters, 5 submarines from France

Post by Bill » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:27 am

I totally and fully admit that 50 or 60 years a go, Rolls Royce made very good engine, and I fully admit that 60 years a go, britain made good plane such as the Spitfire or the tempest

I totally agree with that
:pray: :pray: :pray:

of course, the british doesn't invent the reactor or the rocket :oops:
:negative:
but water goes bellow the bridge since this times isn't ???
And today, I have to said that the situation is different, and RR aren't the same RR as before :think:

for example these plane motor problemes, or on navy field, the pods problems (meet by the liner "Musica" and others)
- Well sir, please agree with me that you other, French, you fight for monnay, whenn us, british, fight for the honnor !
- Of course sir, but you know, everybody fight for what he's leack !
Robert Surcouf, French Corsair, 1773-1827


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Re: Brazil buys 50 helicopters, 5 submarines from France

Post by USS ALASKA » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:07 pm

Rolls Royce Trent series engines are some of the most well designed, trusted, reliable, fuel efficient motors on the market.

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Re: Brazil buys 50 helicopters, 5 submarines from France

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:26 pm

And are British.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill

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Bill
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Re: Brazil buys 50 helicopters, 5 submarines from France

Post by Bill » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:10 pm

thanks to Alsthom for help

thanks ton BMW to save british shit ( I never understand such decision!!!)

thanks to Man and Varstvila to made the best naval engine in the world

but I beleave that the SNECMA reactors are the most reliable in the world, sorry

why ?? well , very easy

as you always remember everybodys, the french have always a wagon to late.
is not actually really the truhst, the point is France is a small country, with clearly other things in the mind that go liberat Irak or others shitty place which don't ask anything anyway. We are busy enought to strike our own gouvernment because .... well doesn't matter, any reason is good enought :lol:
then, on the same times than US made 3 new fighters or helicopters model ( because Talibans and Somalian's use only high technologies :lol: as every body knows :dance: ), France made only one, at best, and the next generations will only coming 30 years lathers !!!! then, you will agree with me than if a plane or a helicopter or a ship will be only replace in 30-35 years, then he MUST BE REALLY reliable !!!!
:idea:
and actually, it is true that the Rafales is easer to maintain than the F18
:stop:
that is why I said the french material is really reliable, much more than any other :lol: (specially british :lol: )
of course, when a thing have allready 25 years old, and not follow the US updates, and start get maintenance troubles, then , guys like you, who don't see mor far than the end of your nose, think than the french stuff is unreliable, but only because you compare with the latest models !
:negative:
could you figure that the helicoptere Alouette 3 used on my frigate is mor old than me and still in use today :lol:
and descript more relaibe that the Linx, because is only mechanical stuff on board, and not any electronical plug :lol: (and design in millimeters with brain, not with feet's)
- Well sir, please agree with me that you other, French, you fight for monnay, whenn us, british, fight for the honnor !
- Of course sir, but you know, everybody fight for what he's leack !
Robert Surcouf, French Corsair, 1773-1827


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Re: Brazil buys 50 helicopters, 5 submarines from France

Post by Bgile » Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:29 pm

Tell us about the A380. It seems to have had a lot of problems in development, and the delivery schedule is way behind, including some cancellations, right? Something about cable run designs being totally screwed up?

How about the RR engines in the Harrier (both US and UK). They seem to have worked ok. And the RR engines in the RN Phantoms.

Then we have the screw on the CDG carrier.

I'm not sure you should be feeling too superior about your stuff. Probably not all that much better or worse than anyone else's, actually.

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Re: Brazil buys 50 helicopters, 5 submarines from France

Post by Nelson Ott » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:14 pm

Not to mention the São Paulo aircraft carrier (ex-Foch) which Brazil purchased from France to help patrol our vast coast. It has been spending more time on the dry dock than on the ocean. Bad deal ... :(
NAe São Paulo A-12.jpg
NAe São Paulo A-12, Brazilian Navy photo
NAe São Paulo A-12.jpg (98.79 KiB) Viewed 1727 times

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Bill
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Re: Brazil buys 50 helicopters, 5 submarines from France

Post by Bill » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:37 am

Oh la, too many things to answer !?

yes, the A380 get delay, as well at every others big projects like that, including Boeing project isn't, no more, no less

the screw of the Charles de Gaule ? yes, true, as I allready said, it was a unsuccesfull try from France and evens a mistake to do it ! The need of such propeller is 2 every 30 years !! why start thing to build such stuff :stubborn: better than on the same times of the catapult to buy it directly from US !
or fit the CVN with Pods, like the Queen Mary liner :ok:
the systemes will be better and more reliable that the low-powered CVN we have now !
at least, we buil the nuclear reactor by ourself, not like westinghouse
:kaput:

You think I feel to superior ???
because I'am proud that we use 30-40 years old helicopters and ship in the fleet ??? :think:
I was on mIstral, last year, when he made a stop in shanghai, equiped with ONE Alouette 3 and TWO Gazelles anti tank :lol: + 25 jeep with flat batteries and wheel, still wear the white paint and "KFOR" signal :quiet:
you, know, I was on a logistic ship, during somes years, I can exactly tell yopu what means to be in a 35 years ship, and is not to much fun like that :negative:

you can ask Sao Paulo crew about that
Anyway, concerninfg the Sao Paulo spending more times in the Dry dock than on the sea, I don't understand what you complain about ?? because it was allready the case before Brazil bought it (for almost steel price cost) And France evens buy back the 2 spares propeller we give it to you, for install on the Charles de Gaulle CVN :clap:

The point is when France stop use a ship, the normal reasonable next owner shall be a museum for almost all case!

for Helicopters, I have to made a point about the reliability
You can ask US cost guards, or China what them think about these helicopters, such as Dauphin (ZH-9) or Super frelon (ZH-8)
and Brazil using Puma and super Puma, as well as all petroleum company such as Total or BP, should be a reason somewhere !

France get some very goods stuff show everywhere (CVN, Rafales, NH90, Tiger..), and others mainly never see anymore !
is a tradition maybe, like before WW2 we show the amazing and uncrossable Maginot line, but forget that the line doesn't reach the sea :angel:
- Well sir, please agree with me that you other, French, you fight for monnay, whenn us, british, fight for the honnor !
- Of course sir, but you know, everybody fight for what he's leack !
Robert Surcouf, French Corsair, 1773-1827


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Re: Brazil buys 50 helicopters, 5 submarines from France

Post by ostriker » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:49 pm

Nelson, I must agree with Bill, Brazil has not to complain for having bought a second hand carrieR. The Foch was out of date and Brazil was aware of what they were buying... for steel price...

In my opinion, - I won't be so harmfull as Bill is -, is that every nation is proud of his own technologies, and there is a lot of stupid people ... EVERYWHERE, IN EACH COUNTRIES. The best exemple, for my country, a lot of people are joking about a supposed unreliability of french technologies, but fact proves that this stuff is no more unreliable than other countries ones.

We see that we want to see...

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