Top ten most powerful navies in the world

The warships of today's navies, current naval events, ships in the news, etc.

Re: Top ten most powerful navies in the world

Postby Bgile » Tue May 25, 2010 2:13 pm

Signature wrote:Yes, the Charles De Gaulle class is in still in service. However, note that all the navies ranked above France, with the notable exception of the Japanese, do have comparable aircraft carriers. The reason that I've ranked the French Navy as fifth and not fourth is because the JMSDF have just finished launching a set of principal surface combatants as recently as five years ago. The French Navy have just begun launching their newest - i.e. just beginning to introduce a new generation. If the comparison was made ten years ago, or five to ten years from now, the French Navy would have taken fourth place. As it is though, the JMSDF have the more modern navy, and my ranking is based on the present, not the past or the future.


What is the British equivalent of CDG's Hawkeye AEW? Isn't Typhoon in service on CDG? All the British have is very limited AEW provided by helicopters and then the Harrier jump jets which seldom even operate from ship anymore and can't compare in capability to Typhoon in any case.
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Re: Top ten most powerful navies in the world

Postby Signature » Tue May 25, 2010 3:31 pm

No, the Typhoon is not amongst the list of aircraft operating from the Charles de Gaulle - the main workhorse is actually the Super Etendard. The Invincible class relies on the Harrier GR 7 and GR9, and will do so until 2018 at the earliest, when the F-35 would be introduced. The Royal Navy has no comparable AEW against the French Navy, and still relies on the Sea Kings for AEW, so the French Navy certainly does have the edge in that department. However, the Royal Navy has far superior amphibious capabilities in comparison to the French, and stronger in terms of submarines - French Navy surface combatants are also outclassed by the Royal Navy. Last but not least, the training and experience of the Royal Navy give them the edge over that of their French counterpart.
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Re: Top ten most powerful navies in the world

Postby Bgile » Tue May 25, 2010 5:51 pm

Signature wrote:No, the Typhoon is not amongst the list of aircraft operating from the Charles de Gaulle - the main workhorse is actually the Super Etendard. The Invincible class relies on the Harrier GR 7 and GR9, and will do so until 2018 at the earliest, when the F-35 would be introduced. The Royal Navy has no comparable AEW against the French Navy, and still relies on the Sea Kings for AEW, so the French Navy certainly does have the edge in that department. However, the Royal Navy has far superior amphibious capabilities in comparison to the French, and stronger in terms of submarines - French Navy surface combatants are also outclassed by the Royal Navy. Last but not least, the training and experience of the Royal Navy give them the edge over that of their French counterpart.


My mistake. CDG carries the Rafale.

I don't know of any reason why British training and experience would be better than French. Do you have a reason for this, or is it just your assumption?
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Re: Top ten most powerful navies in the world

Postby Signature » Tue May 25, 2010 6:27 pm

The Royal Navy has been more active in recent conflicts around the world than la Royale - it has taken part in the second and third Gulf Wars, the Kosovo Conflict, as well as the Afghanistan Campaign, the same conflicts in which the Marine Nationale either did not participate, or had minimal involvement. The UK has a strong naval tradition, and the Navy has always received special attention; the same cannot be said for France - where the army was often seen to be more important - this is a result of their locations, and is unlikely to change over time.
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Re: Top ten most powerful navies in the world

Postby lwd » Tue May 25, 2010 6:46 pm

My impression is also that the USN and RN maintain pretty close ties. They both seem to be willing to talk and learn from each other. Since they both speak aproximately the same language this is probably easier than it would be with the French. I have been impressed with the quality of the French officers I've met and worked with but I just don't see the same synergies working with them as with the British and US navies from sailor to admiral. If someone can find the yearly average number of flight hours that would help as it's a pretty good indicator of the level of training of pilots and air crew although some of the new simulators are good enough that actual flight hours aren't as important.
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Re: Top ten most powerful navies in the world

Postby Karl Heidenreich » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:47 am

Since I got both ships for my collection, Ushakov and Kutznezov, I have re newed my interest in contemporary navies. This mainly because it seems that the USN monopoly at least have potential challengers now; hegemony, as historical evidence always suggest, will come to a point of crisis.

This link is clarifying by itself, but will like to highlight several points:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_navy

The russians are expending a huge amount of money in refiting their naval forces. Forces that once challenged the NATO ones and were taking seriously by a threatened West that now sleeps thinking their biggest problem is climate change, gay rights and islamic inmigrants rights.

From wiki:

Recently approved, a rearmament program until 2015 puts, for the first time in Soviet and Russian history, the development of the navy on an equal footing with strategic nuclear forces. The program covering the period until 2015 is expected to replace 45% of the military inventory in the army and navy.[1] Out of 4.9 trillion rubles ($192.16 billion) allocated for military rearmament, 25% will go into building new ships. "We are already building practically as many ships as we did in Soviet times," First Deputy Prime Minister Sergey Ivanov said during a visit to Severodvinsk in July 2007, "The problem now is not lack of money, but how to optimize production so that the navy can get new ships three, not five, years after laying them down."[2]


Let's remember that russians can get, in theory, more from their money than the Americans: less project management fees, less expensive indirect charges, etc.

The recent improvement in the Russian economy has led to a significant rise in defence expenditure and an increase in numbers of ships under construction, focusing on submarines, such as the conventional Petersburg (Lada) class and nuclear Severodvinsk (Yasen) class. Some older ships have been refitted as well. Jane's Fighting Ships commented in 2004 that the construction programme was too focused on Cold War scenarios, given the submarine emphasis. [25] The Steregushchiy class corvettes, the lead ship of which was laid down on 21 December 2001, is the first new surface construction since the collapse of the Soviet Union,[26] while the new Admiral Sergei Gorshkov class frigates marks the first attempt of the Navy to return to the construction of large blue water capable vessels[27].

In 2005 it was announced that the Russian Navy planned a class of 2-4 new aircraft carriers which could start construction in 2013-14 for initial service entry in 2017. [28] Jane's said it was not clear whether 'this was a funded programme'. New amphibious ships are planned as well. In mid-2007 the new Navy chief announced plans to reform the country's naval forces and build a blue-water navy with the world's second largest fleet of aircraft carriers, aiming to create 6 aircraft carrier strike groups in the next 20 years.[29]

Three new SSBNs are now under construction, (the Dolgorukiy (Borey) class SSBNs), but the first has been under construction since 1996- its completion was expected in 2008. The lead Dolgorukiy Class unit Yuriy Dolgorukiy was launched in April 2007 and began sea trials in June 2009.[30] The fourth unit is scheduled to be laid down in 2010 The mainstay of the SSBN force, the Delta IVs, joined the fleet in 1985-91. While the service life of an SSBN normally is twenty to twenty-five years, without maintenance, it may be as short as ten to fifteen years.[31]

On September 24, 2008, Moscow a Russian lawmaker said that Russia could offer Ukraine contracts to build aircraft carriers for the Russian Navy. He commented on Russian Defense Minister Anatoliy Serdyukov's statement on Tuesday that Russia could make several lucrative proposals to Ukraine that could convince Kiev to allow Russia's Black Sea Fleet to remain in Sevastopol after 2017, when the lease on the naval base in the Crimea expires. "We can offer Ukraine extensive and lucrative opportunities in the sphere of shipbuilding. They have the Nikolaev shipyards that used to build aircraft carriers during Soviet times," said Vyacheslav Popov, a former commander of the Northern Fleet who now sits in the upper house of parliament. These shipyards are bankrupt and abandoned at present and with mutual consent we could help reactivate them," Popov said.[32]

Russia currently does not have a facility capable of building aircraft carriers. The most promising sites for a future such facility are either St. Petersburg or Severodvinsk but significant capital improvements would be required.[citation needed]

Russian officials have been negotiating a purchase of four Mistral class amphibious assault ships. On 24 May 2010, the Russian Defense Minister said that Russia was in pre-contract discussions with Spain, Netherlands, and France on purchasing four Mistral-type ships. It was planned to have one ship built abroad, two with the participation of Russian shipbuilders, and at least one built in a Russian shipyard. The Defense Minister also said that the first ships of this type would be based in the Northern and Pacific Fleets. [33]

On April 28, 2010, The Ukrainian parliament ratified an agreement to lease the port of Sevastopol past the year 2017.[34]


Look that the deal with western european countries is mentioned.

Expeditions and increase in activity
In the last years of the 1990s naval activity was very low. Even at the height of the Kosovo war crisis a planned task group deployment to the Mediterranean was reduced to the dispatch of the intelligence ship Liman. 2003 saw a major increase in activity, including several major exercises. A May joint exercise with the Indian Navy saw two Pacific Fleet destroyers and four vessels from the Black Sea Fleet, led by the Slava-class cruiser Moskva, deployed for three months into the Indian Ocean. The largest out-of-area deployment for a decade, the INDRA 2003 exercise, was highlighted by a series of missile launches by two Tu-160s and four Tu-95s, which made a 5,400 mile round trip flight from Engels-2 air base near Saratov to the exercise area.[35] In August 2003 the Navy also participated in the Far Eastern exercise Vostok-2003, which saw the Slava-class cruiser Varyag and the Sovremennyy class destroyer Bystryy active, as well as an amphibious landing carried out by three Pacific Fleet Ropucha class LSTs. Warships and helicopters from the Japanese and South Korean navies also took part. The Northern Fleet followed in January 2004 when thirteen ships and seven submarines took part in exercises in the Barents Sea. The involvement of Admiral Kuznetsov and Kirov-class nuclear-powered cruiser Petr Velikiy was overshadowed however by two ballistic missile launch failures, made more embarrassing because President Vladimir Putin was afloat aboard the Typhoon-class SSBN Arkhangelsk to witness the tests. Neither of the Delta IV-class Novomoskovsk nor Kareliya were able to successfully launch what were apparently RSM-54 SLBMs.[36] Former Navy Commander-in-Chief Vladimir Kuroyedov's early dismissal may have resulted from these gaffes. He was replaced by Admiral Vladimir Masorin in September 2005.

Embarrassment for the Navy had unfortunately continued, with a mine accident during rehearsals for the Baltic Fleet's celebration of Navy Day in St. Petersburg in July 2005 and the Priz class mini-submarine AS-28 having to be rescued by a joint British/U.S. effort using a Royal Navy unmanned submersible in the Far East in early August 2005. However exercises and operations continued - Peace Mission 2005 in August 2005 involved a new level of cooperation between Russia and the Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy. Two months later the Slava-class cruiser Varyag led Russian participation in INDRA 2005, held off Vishakapatnam between 14 and 20 October 2005. It included surface firings, air defence, and anti-submarine warfare (ASW) exercises.[37]

Admiral Vladimir Vysotskiy became Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy on September 11, 2007, having moved up from the Northern Fleet, which he had commanded since September 2005.[38]

On October 16, 2008, the speaker of Russia's upper house of parliament said that Russia could resume a naval presence in Yemen. Authorities in the Middle East country had been calling on Moscow to help fight piracy and possible terrorist threats. The U.S.S.R. had a major naval support base in the former socialist state of South Yemen, which merged with North Yemen in 1990 to form the present-day Yemen. Speaking to journalists in Sana, the capital of Yemen, Federation Council Speaker Sergey Mironov said the new direction of Russia's foreign and defense policies and an increase in its naval missions would be taken into consideration when making a decision on the request. "It's possible that the aspects of using Yemen ports not only for visits by Russian warships, but also for more strategic goals will be considered," he said.

Mironov also said a visit to Russia by the president of Yemen, Ali Abdullah Saleh, could take place in the near future and that the issue of military technical cooperation could be raised during his visit.[39]

[edit] North Atlantic and Mediterranean Sea
In February 2008 a Russian naval task force completed a two-month deployment in the Mediterranean Sea and the North Atlantic which started on December 4, 2007. The operation was the first large-scale Russian Navy deployment to the Atlantic and the Mediterranean in 15 years. The task force included the Kuznetsov-Class aircraft carrier Kuznetsov, the Udaloy-Class destroyers Admiral Levchenko and Admiral Chabanenko, and the Slava-Class guided missile cruiser Moskva, as well as auxiliary vessels. During the operation the navy practiced rescue and counter-terror operations, reconnaissance, and missile and bomb strikes on the (theoretical) enemy's naval task force. Over 40 Russian Air Force aircraft took part in joint exercises with the navy as well.[40][41][42] Vice-Admiral Nikolay Maksimov, the Northern Fleet commander, said during the operations that the deployment was aimed at ensuring Russia's naval presence "in key operational areas of the world's oceans" and establishing conditions for secure Russian maritime navigation. "After this visit to the Mediterranean and France, the first in 15 years, we will establish a permanent presence in the region" he said.[40][41] Admiral Vladimir Vysotskiy summed up the results in February saying: "What is important is that we have appeared [in the Atlantic and the Mediterranean] at a scheduled time and not just that we appeared there. We'll do all we can to build up our presence where Russia has strategic interests", adding that Russia intended to carry out similar missions once every six months.[43]
In October, 2008, a naval task group from the Northern Fleet, comprising the nuclear-powered missile cruiser Pyotr Velikiy, the large ASW ship Admiral Chabanenko, and support ships, left their homeport of Severomorsk in northern Russia on September 22 and is currently in the northern Atlantic, having covered a distance of 1,000 nautical miles (2,000 km) in a week. "Having some spare time before a joint exercise with the Venezuelan navy, which is planned for November 2008, the warships will perform a number of tasks in the Mediterranean Sea and visit several Mediterranean ports, including Tripoli," the Navy's press service said in a statement. Russian warships are scheduled to participate in joint naval exercises with the Venezuelan navy in the Caribbean on November 10-14, in line with the 2008 training program, and in order to expand military cooperation with foreign navies.[44] These exercises actually took place on 1 December.
October 11, 2008, Russian warships bound for Venezuela, including the nuclear-powered cruiser Pyotr Veliky (Peter the Great), put in Saturday at the Libyan port of Tripoli for refuelling.[45][46]
From Venezuela the Petr Velikiy proceeded to a port call in Capetown, South Africa, then participated in the INDRA-2009 exercise off western India, briefly engaged in counter-piracy operations in the Gulf of Aden, and returned to its homeport of Severomorsk in March 2009.
[edit] Syria
In September 2008 It has been reported that Russia and Syria are conducting talks about permitting Russia to develop and enlarge the base in order to establish a stronger naval presence in the Mediterranean.[47], and amidst the deteriorating Russia relations with the west in conjunction with the 2008 South Ossetia war‎ and the plans to deploy US missile defense shield in Poland, it has even been asserted that president Assad has agreed to Tartus port’s conversion into a permanent Middle East base for Russia’s nuclear-armed warships.[48] Moscow and Damascus additionally announced that it would be renovating the port, although there was no mention in the Syrian press. [49] On September 19, ten Russian warships have docked in Tartus,Syria.[50] According to Lebanese-Syrian commentator Joseph Farah the flotilla which has been moved to Tartus consists of the Moskva cruiser and four nuclear missile submarines. According to Farah upgrades of the port facilities are already under way. Since 1992 the port has been in disrepair with only one of its three floating piers remaining operational,but the facilities now are being restored.[51]
On September 22, 2008, Russian Navy spokesman Igor Dygalo said the nuclear-powered Peter the Great cruiser, accompanied by three other ships, sailed from the Northern Fleet's base of Severomorsk. The ships will cover about 15,000 nautical miles to conduct joint maneuvers with the Venezuelan navy. Dygalo refused to comment on Monday's report in the daily Izvestia claiming that the ships were to make a stopover in the Syrian port of Tartus on their way to Venezuela. Russian officials said the Soviet-era base there was being renovated to serve as a foothold for a permanent Russian navy presence in the Mediterranean. [52]
[edit] Caribbean Sea
On September 8, 2008, it was announced that the Pyotr Velikiy would sail to the Caribbean Sea in order to participate in naval exercises with the Venezuelan Navy. This action would represent the first major Russian show of force in that sea since the end of the Cold War.[53] On 22 September the Kirov class nuclear missile cruiser Petr Velikiy and the Udaloy class large anti-submarine ship Admiral Chabanenko, accompanied by support vessels, left their homeport of Severomorsk for naval exercises with Venezuela scheduled for early November 2008. [54]
On late November 25, 2008, A group of warships from Russia's Northern Fleet arrived at the Venezuelan port of La Guaira. "The Udaloy class destroyer Admiral Chabanenko has docked in port, while the Pyotr Veliky missile cruiser has dropped anchor off La Guaira," said Capt. 1st Rank Igor Dygalo[55]
[edit] East Africa: Somali Coast
On September 24, 2008, the Russian Neustrashimyy left its home base at Baltiysk, Kaliningrad Oblast, Russia, for counter-piracy operations near the Somali coast, said Russian Navy spokesman Captain 1st Rank Igor Dygalo. Moscow Interfax-Agenstvo Voyennykh Novostey 24 Sep 2008</ref>.[56]
On November 19, 2008, Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy Admiral Vysotskiy, speaking to the official news agency, RIA Novosti, stated that the Russian Navy would send additional vessels to the area.[57][58]
From January 11 through 17 March 2009, the Admiral Vinogradov took up the counter-piracy mission from the Neustrashimyy and upon completion took a course home to Vladivostok by way of a port visit to Djakarta, Indonesia 24-28 March 2009. [59][60]
From 26 April through 7 June 2009, the Pacific Fleet destroyer Admiral Panteleyev took up counter-piracy duties in the Gulf of Aden, having left Vladivostok at the end of March 2009 to relieve the Admiral Vinogradov. It returned to Vladivostok on 1 July. [61][62]
On 29 June 2009, the Pacific Fleet destroyer Admiral Tributs was preparing to depart Vladivostok to relieve Admiral Panteleyev for counter-piracy operations in the Gulf of Aden. Depending on the situation, the deployment could last from two to six months.[63]
[edit] Indian Ocean and Arabian Sea
On 11 January, 2009, Army General Makarov - Chief of the Russian General Staff - announced that the Kirov class nuclear-powered cruiser Petr Velikiy and five other ships would take part in exercises with the Indian Navy in late January 2009 [64]


To underate or ignore the russian navy is a serious mistake. They are still thinking in a Cold War scenario and their build up is pointing that way.

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Re: Top ten most powerful navies in the world

Postby RF » Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:34 am

May be they are building up, but how effective are they going to be?
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Re: Top ten most powerful navies in the world

Postby Karl Heidenreich » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:35 am

Just found this, seems useful for the purpose of the thread:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_na ... ft_carrier
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Re: Top ten most powerful navies in the world

Postby RF » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:29 am

Some pretty useful information, thanks for the posts Karl.
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Re: Top ten most powerful navies in the world

Postby Karl Heidenreich » Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:11 am

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Re: Top ten most powerful navies in the world

Postby RF » Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:28 am

This is a revealing set of pictures which does give an impression of the claustraphobia of living in these subs.....

By the way, was that the world's biggest cat in that top picture, on the world's biggest sub?

Thinking again, some of these images reminded me of the Kursk....
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Re: Top ten most powerful navies in the world

Postby AngloSaxonVangaurd » Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:17 pm

Some people are obviously talking real rubbish here.

The Royal Navy regularly fly’s Harrier GRs of its carriers and for the last few weeks/months has deployed HMS Ark Royal with UK and US Harriers embarked on one of the worlds largest training exercises which includes assault ships, destroyers and frigates from the Royal Navy and US Navy and a SSN from the French Navy.

It’s the French who with their appalling excuse for an aircraft carrier (CDG) rarely operate their Rafale from their carrier. It’s been only a handful on months since French pilots have even flown off the deck of CDG due to near 2 years in refit and it’s only been in service 8-9 years.

Royal Navy has taken part in every major naval operation since the Falklands, the French haven’t therefore much more experience for the Royal Navy.

Rafale is a good naval fighter but the primary objective for combat aircraft at sea is to sink enemy ships, in the fast paced naval combat, pilots cannot easily swing from targeting enemy aircraft to targeting enemy ships. Anti air missiles from friendly ships fill the air defence role. If the French navy were going to invade Egypt for example the Rafale would use its air-to-air capabilities to take down the Egyptian air force.

Despite this it is obvious the French Navy leads in the Aircraft carrier area with a full sized carrier capable of operating 26 Rafale (currently) while the British have 2 escort carriers operational and 1 in reserve capable of operating 16-18 harriers each.

However Royal Navy has a larger number of more powerful destroyers and frigates than the French Navy (24 Royal Navy to 13 French Navy destroyers and frigates) also the Royal Navy has 7 in service SSNs with 1 astute SSN operational but not commissioned to the French Navy’s 6 far smaller and inferior SSNs.

Given the clear lead in Royal navy submarines, destroyers and frigates in both terms of numbers and quality the lead the French have in the aircraft carrier area means little.

Also consider that the French Carrier (CDG) is not always active therefore leaving the largest gap in the French Navy. In fact when CDG is in its long refits the French Navy cannot operate in a high intensity naval war zone forcing the French Navy to become nothing more than 2nd rate naval power.

The Royal Navy on the other hand always has a carrier ready for deployment keeping the Royal Navy capable of fighting in a high intensity naval war zone.

Royal Navy is clearly above France. A real top 10 - 15 most powerful navy’s list is;

1st rate Blue water navy’s;
1 US Navy
2 Royal Navy
3 French Navy
4 Russian Navy

2nd rate powerful regional navy’s;
5 JMSDF (Japan)
6 PLAN (China)
7 Indian Navy
8 Royal Australian/New Zealand

3rd rate regional navys
9 Italian Navy
10 German Navy
11 Spanish Navy
12 Canadian Navy
13 Brazilian Navy
14 Turkish Navy
15 Netherlands Navy

Japanese navy doesn’t deserve a place above French or the Royal Navy, essentially just a large (47 strong) surface fleet with yes some high-end war ships but such a fleet is target practice for a navy with carriers and nuclear submarines. Japanese navy is built to combat the larger less technologically advanced surface fleet of China and the smaller surface fleet of North Korea.

The Royal Australian and New Zealand Navy must strategically be considered one Navy.
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Re: Top ten most powerful navies in the world

Postby Karl Heidenreich » Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:28 pm

AngloSaxonVangaurd,

Really interesting, and practical, summary you made, indeed. Of ocurse it states as how the navies are now and not of what may be of them in the close future, which is something I have been looking forward:

1. The RN is to commision 2 new aircraft carriers that will be full carriers. If that happens your statement of the RN to be No. 2 will be undisputable at all.
2. What about the refit and reconstructions of the Russian Navy? Certainly there is potential there.
3. The Chinese. If they want to play the role of yard bully they still to reinforce their navy.
4. Japan: always being less dependant of the US it could consider a stronger fleet, maybe some heavier stuff or go nuclear all the way.

Any feedback on this will be appreciated.

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Re: Top ten most powerful navies in the world

Postby Bgile » Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:47 pm

The French are also building new carriers (the same ones as the British except the French carriers are CATOBAR). It is a joint French/British design.

The French have E2s, which provide them with tremendously better AWACS coverage than the British Searchwater.

I thought Rafale was multi role and it's performance leaves the Harrier wanting.

AAW is not solely dependent on shipboard missiles. In fact, quite the contrary is true. Aircraft are capable of attacking incoming aircraft at a much greater range, particularly with AWACS coverage.

Correct me if I'm mistaken here, but I believe the op tempo of the current RN carrier isn't nearly as great as implied and not as many harriers, and until this exercise they were based ashore. They made a big deal of them actually showing up on the carrier. There are people in the RN forum on navweaps who are much better informed than I am, though.
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Re: Top ten most powerful navies in the world

Postby AngloSaxonVangaurd » Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:48 pm

Karl Heidenreich wrote:AngloSaxonVangaurd,

Really interesting, and practical, summary you made, indeed. Of ocurse it states as how the navies are now and not of what may be of them in the close future, which is something I have been looking forward:

1. The RN is to commision 2 new aircraft carriers that will be full carriers. If that happens your statement of the RN to be No. 2 will be undisputable at all.
2. What about the refit and reconstructions of the Russian Navy? Certainly there is potential there.
3. The Chinese. If they want to play the role of yard bully they still to reinforce their navy.
4. Japan: always being less dependant of the US it could consider a stronger fleet, maybe some heavier stuff or go nuclear all the way.

Any feedback on this will be appreciated.

Regards,



A future Chinese fleet capable of full blue water operations is realistically 2 -3 decades away at least. It even takes the Chinese a decade or over to design and build the first ship of a class but once in production can launch one or two every year maybe more in future as more money is devoted to building a navy to dominate Asia and the Asian side of the pacific. Of corce by then the new ships commissioned in the last 15 years will need replacing. Chinese are quite capable of building their own modern surface ships and submarines, the last things left are the knowledge of aircraft carriers, its likely they will have one carrier in service by 2025 maybe even two (one re-fitted x Russian carrier and one Chinese built, maybe another under construction) but for the first 10-15 years it would most probably be for purely testing, training, and evaluation. Come 2035-2040 the Chinese will have the 2nd most powerful fleet in the world - based on a fully modern surface fleet of destroyers and frigates and at least 1 or 2 fully operational carrier with the testing, training, and evaluation years over.

If the Russians keep heading down the road of pumping money into their navy then their current plans of modernizing their fleet will happen, but even in soviet times ship building didn’t run smoothly. They have ambition, and are trying to re-build the lost ship building capabilities of soviet times. Russia has to act fast though as basically its cruisers are from the 60s and 70s (designed in the 50s) its destroyers are from the 70s and 80s (designed in the 60s and 70s) and its frigates are from the 60s and 70s (designed in the 50s and 60s).
Russia does however have 1 modern frigate in service with 1 more soon to come online, aprox 2 destroyers commissioned only 17-20 years ago and the battle cruiser Velikiy which is only 10 or so years old. So if Russia doesn’t replace 20 or so massively out dated cruisers destroyers and frigates with-in 10 years then it wont have a surface navy left. Its just as bad under the ocean waves as well, only its later built Akula SSNs and later built Kilo SSKs give Russia a meaningful submarine force. So with 30-35 SSNs and SSKs and 20-25 cruisers, destroyers and frigates to be replaced in the next 10 - 15 years before those ships become a military liability rather than a military asset the Russian government has a lot of money to spend in a short amount of time. This makes any future Carrier program for the Russian navy difficult and a risky area to spend valuable money on. is every thing goes well then just maybe a replacement for their current carrier by 2025 with 1 under construction. If France don’t build a second carrier then the Russian may move up to third buy 2025/2030.

Japanese face dramatic demographic decline thanks to fast falling population and a fast ageing population. Result less people to recruit and less people willing to join the defence forces. Easier to pay the Americans for defence, especially when the Americans will be ever more keen to maintain their forward deployment to counter Chinese build up. Japanese government and citizens alike highly favour 1% defence spending and their is no change in that, expect to see Japanese navy surface fleet fall from 47 today to around 35-40 in the next 15 years or so just like all western navy’s shrink.

As for the RN the two new super carriers will confirm the RN as no 2 may right into 2025, if the FSC brings 18 new frigates over 20 years like was planned along with the 6 T45s would give the RN a highly modern and sophisticated 23 strong surface fleet. Still a respectable 1st rate navy with high end blue water capabilities but quality can only go so far against quantity. RN slip to 3rd place by 2025, 4th by 2030s

2020
1st rate blue water navy's;
1 USA
2 RN
3 France
4 Russia

2nd rate powerful regional navy's;
5 China (over-take Japan)
6 Japan

2025
1st rate blue water navy's;
1 USA
2 Russia (overtake RN)
3 RN (fall below Russia)
4 China (over-take France, but only if France doesn’t commission second carrier
5 France (fall below china, but only if France doesn’t commission second carrier)

2nd rate powerful regional navy's;
6 Japan

2030
1st rate blue water navy's;
1 USA
2 Russia or China (depends on aircraft carrier programs of both nations)
3 Russia or China
4 RN
5 France

2nd rate powerful regional navy's;
6 Japan

2035
1st rate blue water navy's;
1 USA
2 China
3 Russia
4 RN
5 France

2nd rate powerful regional navy's;
6 Japan

But that’s just a guess upon what i know of these nations navy’s and their programs etc, its fun to look into the future, but one thing is sure the west will have naval dominance.

Brazil is a navy to look for, so is Australia/New Zealand.

India is a toothless tiger in reality; only size will keep it with any prestige.
AngloSaxonVangaurd
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